13 replies to this topic

[henryS]

Any suggestions to the following would be gratefully received:

 

In trying to start an engine that's been stood for a year or two, drained oil, filled with new oil then connected battery to starter and with the plugs IN the motor spins enough to engage with the flywheel but stops.
With the spark plugs out the engine turns over, slowly. 

It is out of gear but obviously without connecting up the clutch to disengage it, the start motor is having to turn part of the gearbox although I shouldn't expect that to have much of an impact.

Could the pistons be rubbing in the bores causing a frictional load?

 

I have tried two different batteries and connecting them to different places on the engine block and obviously to the starter motor terminal. 

 

I also wonder if the starter motor could be on the way out but it seems to be able to turn the engine over okay (I say okay but it was still slower than I would expect a mini engine to turn over...) without the plugs in so no load from any compression. 

 

As above, suggestions welcome and I'll try to test out any theories.

Cheers

[Carlos W]

Could be the starter motor, or it could be rust on the bores.

[mini stephen]

If it was me I would have sprayed wd40 in the bores and let it sit for a few hours before turning over with the plugs out just to get everything movein keep spraying it in when turning the first couple of times then insert plugs and it will burn any excess off if still no joy u could try pouring diesel in and letting it sit

[Stevie W]

Hi,

 

To check if it's the starter motor, turn the engine over with the headlights on. If the engine really is as tight as expected, the headlights will dim very noticeably. This shows the starter motor is healthy and drawnig lots of current to try and spin the engine.

If the headlights stay bright this indicates a faulty starter motor (usually very worn brushes).

 

It's more likely to be rusty bores/pistons if the engine has been stood for a long time. The above suggestion of a little diesel down the bores which should be allowed to soak for a couple of days, is a good one!! This will help remove rust and lubricate the rings and bores.

 

If you get the engine to spin over faster (assuming the starter motor is ok and the diesel eases the tightness), I would let the engine build up oil pressure on the starter (with no plugs in) to make sure all is ok here.

New plugs, points, condenser and dizzy cap are always worth doing as these will give the engine a fighting chance.

 

If the engine still turns over slowly with the plugs out and a good known starter & battery then it might be time to take the head off and see what's going on.... 

 

Cheers, Steve.  

[henryS]

Thanks all for the great suggestions.

Will break out the WD40/diesel next time I'm in the workshop; will pour some in and leave it for a while. I'm
Sure it'll help.

If the engine then turns fast enough with the plugs in, I'll wire up the dizzy and coil and see if she'll fire up. That'll get things spinning :)

Failing that, it could be a case of removing the head and a bit of a rebuild perhaps.

Thanks!

Edited by henryS, 21 June 2015 - 09:01 PM.

[coopdog]

See how tight the engine is by jacking up one wheel and turning it with the engine in gear with the plugs out, engine could be seized

[ChopperHarris]

er coopdag, why not just put car in 4th and push?

[Spider]

If the engine turns slowly with the Plugs out, then after one or two revolutions, any rust that may have been in the bore would for the most part be gone (in one way or another!), so if it's still slow to turn after that, I'd suggest it's the starter motor or something else, like for example a seized (rusted) alternator and / or water pump (take the fan belt off and try), or a crook solenoid, poor battery connection etc etc.

 

It's in Neutral yeah? But does it 'free-wheel' as it should in Neutral? Try as ChopperHarris suggests ^.

[henryS]

Thanks for the additional replied. I should have added earlier that the engine is standalone:
The engine is sat on a pallet, alternator and rad removed, clutch/transfer cover removed to see clutch rotation and starter motor engagement.

I think from the suggestions above, given that without the plugs the engine turns over (slowly) it would perhaps seem the starter motor is on the way out.

I will try the WD40/Diesel suggestion to free up the pistons a bit more but failing that a recon/new starter may be needed.

EDIT - as I don't have sufficient posts yet, if anyone knows of a spare starter motor or recon in the Notts/Derby/Melton Mowbray/Loughborough area I would be keen to give it a try. Cheers.

Edited by henryS, 22 June 2015 - 06:37 AM.

[Spider]

Thanks for the additional replied. I should have added earlier that the engine is standalone:
The engine is sat on a pallet, alternator and rad removed, clutch/transfer cover removed to see clutch rotation and starter motor engagement.

 

Cheers for that bit of info.

 

To check if it it 'free-wheels' in this case, try turning both output shafts from the Gearbox in the same direction at the same time. (If it has a standard 'open' type diff, you can hold one and spin the other). None the less, as the engine's not fitted, it won't make any difference in regards to how the engine turns over even if in gear.

Edited by Moke Spider, 22 June 2015 - 08:08 AM.

[coopdog]

er coopdag, why not just put car in 4th and push?

Because it's easier and you can feel how tight the engine is rather pushing a full car which might be hard to tell if it's the weight of the car or a siezed engine

[henryS]

Yeah, sorry (moke spider and others) for forgetting to be clear in the initial post about the engine being separate from the car.
I've found some brand new starters which I may buy one to discount that problem, but as the engine turns I'm thinking either the pistons/rings are tight in the bores or the motor is on it's way out...

 

Turning the crank over with socket and ratchet wasn't too difficult leading to me thinking it's the starter motor.

[Carlos W]

If you've got a good earth, and the crank turns over with a socket with the plugs out freely and evenly, then the starter motor is the next logical place to go

[Dusky]

Mine did the same, too much static advance was the problem