15 replies to this topic

[Jubious_69]

Hi All,

 

I know there are a thousand threads on roll cages but Icant find one relating to my question....does anyone know of a cheapt place to get a 6 point cage with dash bar and possibly the option of adding door bars at a later date?

 

I know safety devices would be the obvious choice but I do not need FIA spec and therefore don't want to pay 8 million pounds for the privilege! I was just wondering if there are any alternatives out there!

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

[Jubious_69]

has anyone ever tried this?

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...sd=131087624382

[maccers]

Like a motorcycle helmet and clothes, always buy the best you can afford, it may save your life! What are you using the car for? Even the best SD cage could cause come considerable harm if not fitted/welded correctly.

[rally1380]

You can get a full safety devices cage from Minispares for less than £400.......why buy a cheap one???

 

Plus why are you fitting a cage?  If for competition then don't buy a cheapo one.....if for using in a road car......why? They limit access to the rear, are dangerous if you smack your head on them in an accident and will effect your insurance.

[Gr4h4m]

Cheap and roll cage are not two thing that go together

[blackbelt1990]

You either want the best or the cheapest. You can't have both.

[rally1380]

Cheap and roll cage are not two thing that go together

 

Very true....and if they do go together then you might as well just fit cardboard tubes!!!

[666junky]

a fella at the IMM built one out of guttering / plumbing plastic pipes - looked great and was funny - it was just a complete piss take to all the people who feel the need to fit a rollcage to a road going car just for the looks and take no precautions to making it safe ( padding, wearing a helmet, bucket seats and harnesses) etc!

[nicklouse]

There is a reason real rollcages are made out of CDS steel.

Anyway why do you want a roll cage? Looks or safety? You have a few choices a safe rollcage that looks good or a rollcage that looks good and is safe.

And limits you.

[zerobelow]

A roll cage, especially one with a full halo, is dangerous to drive when not driving with a helmet, and fixed-back, high back seats. While it may prevent the car from being crushed, it will not prevent the occupants from impacting the cage in a collision -- it can turn even a 5-10mph accident into a deadly one. A small hit against the hard steel is a lot worse than a harder hit against the sheet metal or dashboard material. And before you say "I'll just mount the seat where it can't hit the bar", note that in an accident, the whole shape of the car, even with the roll cage, will change, as will the mountings for the seat, etc. A family friend in a big american classic car stopped at a traffic signal, was hit by a red light running car -- it was the key socket on the dashboard that went through the eye socket that caused the most damage -- normally the dashboard has a steering wheel and all sorts of other stuff in the way before you hit it, but somehow the whole shape of the interior of the car changed. And you'll be adding just as dangerous stuff above and around your head area.

 

A cage that doesn't meet the fia specs -- if the cage is not properly designed and installed, then it can be dangerous because the bars can change shape, and impact you in a collision, even if your seat/belt/helmet kept you in position.

 

If you want a show cage, perhaps look at just one that is a roll bar behind the seat instead? Far safer, and far less impact on the usage of the car. You'll still need a high backed, preferrably one piece fixed back racing seat, so that you don't fall backwards and impact the bar, but it will reduce some of the hard points.

 

If you're racing, go for the fia one and have it installed by a skilled roll cage installer. The quality of the welds, including parts that you can't see, is extremely important. The fia specifications are there for a reason, and they address many of the dangers of fitting an ill-designed cage.

[Jubious_69]

Thanks everyone for your replies

 

I plan to use the car for track days and the odd commute or spirited drive on the road late at night

 

I was always under the impression that minis are terrible in a crash so wanted to get a proper cage in it however from what I've seen above the general consensus is it's more hassle than its worth and I would have to wear a helmet all the time.

 

I would be using fixed back buckets and harnesses however from what everyone's said you still run the risk of hitting your head on the framework. 

 

I highly doubt it but would roll cage padding combined with the fixed backs and harnesses limit the chance of causing serious injury should my head meet the tubing?

[Tommyboy12]

I was under the impression that roll cage padding only stops you clouting your head and ruining your helmet. It should be normal course to replace a helmet after any impact. Ive dropped my bike helmet on the kitchen floor before and been out and bought a replacement.

[zerobelow]

The roll cage padding will help, but not completely mitigate the head impact problems over bare metal. Most racing rules do require padding anywhere the body could contact. But even with the padding, the cage steel is very hard. 

 

In our mid-engine corvair race car we have a buick 215 (which was the predecessor to the rover v8) in the back seat. With the roll cage in, our access to the engine is by leaning over the roll bar. We’ve added padding, but you can still feel the steel through the padding when leaning on it. 

[zerobelow]

An interesting side note to the combo of fixed back seat and roll cage. 

 

To be safe in that configuration, you also need a 5-6 point harness. A stock 3 point harness is designed to let you move in ways that could impact the cage. It intentionally lets you fold forward in a crash, so you don't slide out from under the lap belt -- this is why seat belts have the inertia reel, and don't just keep you locked tight to the seat. 

 

4 point belts almost all have the same "submarining" issue that will let you slide under the belt and break your back. I have seen one that is designed with one weak shoulder strap that will let your side at the center of the car fold forward and prevent the submarining. 

 

To really be safe with the fixed seat and cage, you will want a 5 or 6 pt harness that will hold you still and prevent you from sliding under. However, at least in the states, there are no street legal 5-6 pt harnesses, so you could get ticketed if an officer was in a mood. (I believe here the seatbelt requirement requires the seat belt to let you fold forward, which 3-4 pt belts need but 5-6pt ones dont, but the laws weren't designed around 5-6 pt harnesses). 

 

So, to be road legal AND safe, I'd need to wear a 5 pt harness, with a stock 2-3 pt seatbelt over it. Which would slow removal in the case of an accident/emergency...

 

 

A 4 point harness will let you slide down the seat 

[keefr22]

I was always under the impression that minis are terrible in a crash so wanted to get a proper cage in it however from what I've seen above the general consensus is it's more hassle than its worth and I would have to wear a helmet all the time.
 
I would be using fixed back buckets and harnesses however from what everyone's said you still run the risk of hitting your head on the framework.

I would say the vast majority of night road rally & regularity rally cars have full cages fitted (Rally 1380 should be able to concur with that?) And you aren't allowed to wear helmets on night road rallies (or weren't in my day!) & if you look at piccies of regularity rallies the crews competing in those don't either. If your cage, full harnesses & seats are mounted properly I will always contend (& it IS just my opinion) that you're safer in a car thus fitted. I had a number of 'offs' in my road rallying days, two resulting in write offs & my head (or my navigators!) NEVER contacted any part of the cage - I also saw far worse accidents than mine where the crews were fine - I wonder if they would have been without the safety equipment? If a shunt is bad enough that the car is going to distort enough for your head to hit a cage bar, then if the cage isn't there then it's likely going to hit the roof or some other part of the structure anyway - & in that case, personally, I'd far rather be securely strapped into a proper seat by proper belts...

Whilst I'm a trained engineer, I'm not a structural one, so this is simply just my own opinion from having run cars with full cages, harnesses & 'proper' seats on the road, off & on for 40 odd years, & having accidents that I am supremely grateful weren't in cars without them. I've also never had more than 4 point harnesses, & MSA regs don't require more than those, even for most stage rallies (& crews competing on all stage events - including Rally GB don't wear their helmets on road sections - & if they're tight for time they don't hang around!) I'm just posting this as a counter opinion to all those posts one reads that say fitting a roll cage is something that's just waiting to kill you.

keith

PS I would though agree if you're going to fit a cage, make sure it's a 'proper' one & at least MSA approved - & that it's fitted to welded in plates again to at least MSA specifications, & that your seats & harnesses are fitted to the same MSA regs. And the structure of the car where they will be fitted, is solid! The MSA Blue Book, the 'bible' for competition car preparation in the UK, is on line here...

https://www.msauk.or...s/MSA-Yearbooks

Edited by keefr22, 01 May 2015 - 08:16 PM.