12 replies to this topic

[slpj24]

Hi,

 

Can anyone shed light on this?

 

I just bought and received "minispares head studs kit, C-AHT279" http://www.minispare...id=36925&title=

 

I had expected to get 10 FLAT washers, but it came with 10 DISHED washers. Also referred to by minispares as "Original ST spring type washer" C-AHT288. Competition head (spring) washers, set of 10. http://www.minispare...id=35080&title=

 

 

 

So I rang minispares to ask about the washers, as I'm not familiar with ST spring washers.

 

I was told. "Originally Minis, didn't have ANY washers under the head stud nuts."

 

Is that true? I thought ALL A-series engines had washers under the head studs.

 

I asked about the dished/sprung washers that are in the kit, and I was told, they are optional, and it doesn't matter which way up you install them, if you choose to use them. But they aren't really needed.

 

So can anyone please put me straight on this?

 

If the washers are competition, which way up should they be fitted? Cup up or down?

 

And if the washers really are competition, are the head studs rated for a higher torque when tightening the head?

Edited by slpj24, 08 April 2015 - 07:10 PM.

[RooBoonix]

I used flanged nuts when I replaced the nuts and studs of my cylinder head, was easier and they were what was recommended. (See here: http://www.minispare...45.aspx|Back to) 

 I don't see the problem with using the dished washers, and don't take my word on this, but I think the dish would face up so as the nut screws down onto it, it flattens out (like I said, don't take my word on it, that's just how I would do it).

 

The washers are simply there to help spread the load of the nut to help prevent damage to the head when torquing down and during normal use. As you have them, I would fit them (there is no harm in doing so). Just make sure you use a torque wrench and follow the correct tightening pattern to load the head properly and prevent damage.

 

Hope that helps,

Cam.

Edited by RooBoonix, 08 April 2015 - 07:34 PM.

[slpj24]

Hi Cam,

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Yup i know the point of having washers.

 

I asked, if minis originally didn't have any washers under the head studs, as I was told by minispares today. And which way up.

 

As you say, you're not sure either. My thinking is that if they are placed cup up, then they wont flatten out, since the washer is larger than the nut. Whereas, if they are placed cup down, they will be flattened by the nut acting on the centre of the washer, but won't this increase the clamping load at the same time? So what torque should be used if that's the case?

 

Presumabley, being labeled as competition washers, as they are by minispares, implies a different torque doesn't it? It's a pity minispares don't say since they sell them.

 

Has anyone here used them and know exactly which way up they are supposed to be fitted?

Edited by slpj24, 08 April 2015 - 09:16 PM.

[Spider]

Well, every Mini Cylinder Head I've seen that was undisturbed from the Factory either had Washers (P/N 12H1278) under the Nuts or used the Flanged Nuts (P/N CAM4545).

 

With the Beveled (Spring) Washers the the they should be fitted so the the Raised part goes against the Nut and the Lower Part to the Head. Fitting them the other way only tries to shove them down the stud hole, however, being what they are (a Spring Washer), IMO, they have no place in this application.

 

<Edit: Use a good quality Flat 'Tensile' (Hard) Washer>

Edited by Moke Spider, 08 April 2015 - 09:22 PM.

[slpj24]

Hi Moke Spider,

 

Thanks for confirming exactly what I thought. I too have never seen an a-series engine without washers under the head stud nuts.

 

But minpsares are selling these as competition washers. Has anyone ever used them for that purspose?

 

Also, a bit of digging in the internet has revealed that they are called BELLVILLE washers. http://en.wikipedia....lleville_washer And it seem that they should indeed be fitted cup down.

 

But I'm really not sure about using them at all. As you say, and I agree, I think I'd be better off with the original flat washers, that I thought was going to be in the head stud kit.

 

I just looked on minispares site again, and they don't appear to sell the original hard flat washers.

Edited by slpj24, 08 April 2015 - 09:43 PM.

[RooBoonix]

Maybe just use flanged nuts instead? (Link: http://www.minispare...45.aspx|Back to )

 

This is what I used and they look nicer imo :)

 

Cam.

[Spider]

I am pretty sure they did use something like these on the Works Cars, however they also had different head gaskets back then along with a very different spec of material for the stud itself. Without trying to appear too critical here either, the Washers I've seen that are supplied in those kits are too thin and there is a very real risk of them cracking.

 

<Edit: You'll probably have to go to a fasteners supplier for decent washers or ARP have great ones, though you won't have a trouble in the world with the CAM4545 Flanged Nuts>

Edited by Moke Spider, 08 April 2015 - 10:04 PM.

[slpj24]

Yep, maybe the flanged nuts would have been better at that. I'll hunt for decent flat washers I guess. cheers.

[gazza82]

I just looked on minispares site again, and they don't appear to sell the original hard flat washers.

Sell these though http://www.minispare...s/C-AHT287.aspx

[grumpy dad]

Hi 

that's what he has at the moment

[slpj24]

Hi Gazza/grumpy,

 

Yes, that's exactly what the discussion is about.

 

I guess you haven't read the whole thread?

[gazza82]

I did .. Just didn't notice that those washers are not flat either from the pic. I've got the same stud sets for my 1330 block and wondered how they were installed.

I take it the 12-point flanged nuts are ARP only?

[grumpy dad]

Hi

 

http://www.minispare...px|Back to shop