12 replies to this topic

[maieth]

Afternoon all.

Took off my front shock absorbers today - standard height gaz adjustables - after noticing a while back how uneven the car was sittin: the drivers side front corner was noticeably lower than passenger side.
The shocks were only fitted around 1000 miles ago at the same time that I replaced the cones and knuckles, so I'm fairly confident these usual suspects are not the problem.

Inspecting the car before jacking it up I found the drivers side shock was compressed a good 2-3cm more than the passengers side.

When I removed the shocks I found that at the same adjustment setting, the passenger side one can by fully extended or collapsed by hand with little or no rebound, while the drivers side unit is EXTREMELY difficult to extend more than an inch or so by hand and has a lot of recoil.
The result of this seems to be that as soon as the drivers side shock is compressed it basically stays fully compressed and doesn't return to a normal ride height.

The car is mostly driven with just me on-board, so I had expected one side to settle/bed in a little more than the other, but this difference feels more like a fault with one of the shocks. I just don't know which one.

Anyone got any ideas on what could be the problem with the shocks? I've swapped them over and put them back on for now and will call gaz on Monday in case they can assist at all, but wandered if anyone had found anything similar before?

Does anyone know how far compressed the shocks should be when the car is just sitting normally without any passengers? Could be helpful to get an idea of whether the drivers side shock is collapsed.

[cal844]

Send all 4 gaz shocks and call protech!

[Yoda]

Send all 4 gaz shocks and call protech!

 This!

 

Plus, if you were to put the car on the ground without shocks fitted, how would it be then, If particularly low still on one side/corner, this would indicate worn out rubber cone spring/s and would therefore put more strain on a gas shock, holding it more compressed than should be, possibly causing early failure?

[Spider]

What condition are your bump and rebound stops in?

[nicklouse]

Shocks have zero effect on ride height.

You have issues with your cones,donuts or knuckles.

[Steve G]

The shocks shouldn't have any effect unless one of them has seized up. I have found that new gas pressurised shocks will lift a car up slightly when they are fitted though but it's a very small amount. 

As suggested remove the shocks or at least one end and see how the car sits. You will need to make sure the back of the car isn't causing the problem as well. The best way to do this is to jack the back of the car up using a trolley jack so it's supported right in the middle of the car. You only need to lift the car a little so that some weight is taken off the rear wheels. If it then sits properly with the weight off the back wheels you will know the rear suspension is making the car lean over a bit.

Make sure you are on level ground and that whatever way you jack the back up is safe though. I think I have used a fence post cut to fit under the subframe in the past but then you struggle to get a jack under it.

[maieth]

The shocks shouldn't have any effect unless one of them has seized up.

 

_{When I removed the shocks I found that at the same adjustment setting, the passenger side one can by fully extended or collapsed by hand with little or no rebound,}while the drivers side unit is EXTREMELY difficult to extend more than an inch or so by hand and has a lot of recoil.
_{The result of this seems to be that as soon as the drivers side shock is compressed it basically stays fully compressed and doesn't return to a normal ride height.}

 

I'd say it's pretty seized up.  I can only get it to extend a few cm at its softest setting.  To even fit it back on the car I had to jack up the radius arm to reduce the distance between the two mounting bolts. With more than a few clicks of adjustment it is near impossible to extend.  As mentioned above, the result of this is that after any road bump that causes the shock to compress there is little to no rebound and that side of the car stays low.

 

Rear of the car is sitting compeltely level, but I think the idea of removing the front shocks and setting the car back down is still a sensible move. Might get chance to give that a go tomorrow.  Thanks

[maieth]

Shocks have zero effect on ride height.

You have issues with your cones,donuts or knuckles.

 

See, I read this advice in a lot of other threads before posting, and it still makes no sense to me.  I get that the other suspects are more likely most of the time as they are prone to failure over time, but that doesn't mean they are the only things that can wear out.  As such, I haven't ruled those parts out as part of the overall problem, but my initial question was about the shocks for good reason as they are in very different conditions.  It's pretty logical to assume that as they respond in completely different ways to being compressed/extended that one of them might have a problem.

 

As ar as I am aware, under normal conditions a shock absober will be partly extended when the car is on a level surface, so that it has room to both extend if the car is lifted going over a bump, but also room to compress further to absorb the shock as the car settles back down again.  

Shocks shouldnt effect ride height because it should all settle out, witht he radius arm dropping back down and leaving the shock back at that mid-extension point and the wheel at a normal height.  But if there is a fault with the shock that means it doesn't settle back to normal after compressing to soak up the impact, and instead remains at its shortest length, the end of the radius arm will be held up at a higher elevation and the wheel will sit higher in the arch.  In this case, with the shock seized, the car would sit lower on that corner.

 

Right?

[firstforward]

 

Shocks have zero effect on ride height.

You have issues with your cones,donuts or knuckles.

 

See, I read this advice in a lot of other threads before posting, and it still makes no sense to me.  I get that the other suspects are more likely most of the time as they are prone to failure over time, but that doesn't mean they are the only things that can wear out.  As such, I haven't ruled those parts out as part of the overall problem, but my initial question was about the shocks for good reason as they are in very different conditions.  It's pretty logical to assume that as they respond in completely different ways to being compressed/extended that one of them might have a problem.

 

As ar as I am aware, under normal conditions a shock absober will be partly extended when the car is on a level surface, so that it has room to both extend if the car is lifted going over a bump, but also room to compress further to absorb the shock as the car settles back down again.  

Shocks shouldnt effect ride height because it should all settle out, witht he radius arm dropping back down and leaving the shock back at that mid-extension point and the wheel at a normal height.  But if there is a fault with the shock that means it doesn't settle back to normal after compressing to soak up the impact, and instead remains at its shortest length, the end of the radius arm will be held up at a higher elevation and the wheel will sit higher in the arch.  In this case, with the shock seized, the car would sit lower on that corner.

 

Right?

 

 

The shock absorber will settle within its range dependent on the compression of the rubber donuts. The amount the shock absorber lifts the car is negligible, it would have no discernible effect on your ride height. You are correct in saying a siezed shock in an extened position will hold the car high or siezed in a retracted position will hold the car lower. I have had a car with this exact problem and I assure you that you would feel the effects whilst driving the car as the ride becomes very harsh and choppy.

 

It is not uncommon to need to jack up the top arm to align up the bolt holes in order to fit a shock absorber.

 

You stated that you have already swapped the shock absorbers over, therefore this should have already answered your question as if one of the shock absorbers is not functioning correctly in the manner you are suggesting, it would have the same effect on the other side it has been fitted. If after swapping them over it is still lower on the same side then is it likely the problem as nicklouse has suggested.

 

I fitted all new knuckles and and nylon cups last year and only after a few thousand miles the suspension collapsed resting the top arm on the bump stop on the N/S, it had worn through the nylon cup so much so that it gouged the top arm and ruined it. Apparently there are some knuckles and cups that are "cheap sub standard" so I replaced with minispares original without problems since.

 

Just want to add... are you sure you have the same amount of clicks of adjustment on both shocks, I was softening my GAZ and the adjuster was jamming some on one so I thought it was on the number 1 setting but was up the scale by about 5 clicks, it seems it corroded the adjuster with all the winter salt, after working it back and forwards it then freed up, so maybe count the total clicks on each shock to make sure you are at the same point on each, if it has siezed up on one it will have no effect on your ride height.

Edited by firstforward, 22 March 2015 - 04:09 AM.

[Yoda]

 

The shocks shouldn't have any effect unless one of them has seized up.

 

_{When I removed the shocks I found that at the same adjustment setting, the passenger side one can by fully extended or collapsed by hand with little or no rebound,}while the drivers side unit is EXTREMELY difficult to extend more than an inch or so by hand and has a lot of recoil.
_{The result of this seems to be that as soon as the drivers side shock is compressed it basically stays fully compressed and doesn't return to a normal ride height.}

 

I'd say it's pretty seized up.  I can only get it to extend a few cm at its softest setting.  To even fit it back on the car I had to jack up the radius arm to reduce the distance between the two mounting bolts. With more than a few clicks of adjustment it is near impossible to extend.  As mentioned above, the result of this is that after any road bump that causes the shock to compress there is little to no rebound and that side of the car stays low.

 

Rear of the car is sitting compeltely level, but I think the idea of removing the front shocks and setting the car back down is still a sensible move. Might get chance to give that a go tomorrow.  Thanks

 

 

Yes, i agree that it looks like you may have a failed shock, but i still see a need to make sure that the car sits level without the shocks fitted. This will prove that the springs are either good or bad before just changing the shocks and have it happen again! It is not unknown for a single rubber spring to go weak and affect one side of the car. I say this just to prevent damage to another shock, as you have stated that you have swapped them over, therefore if the fault is in the spring, you may find your other shock going bad.

 

while you have the car sitting without front shocks, jack the rear off the ground centrally as suggested previously and then see how it sits. whilst in this position, push down on each front corner to see if both springs give equally. If not it may be time to fit new springs before thinking about replacing the shocks.

 

And yes, shocks usually do not have an affect on ride height unless they are gas filled and one has leaked, or seized.

 

Hope this clears thing up a bit for you.

[nicklouse]

Shocks have zero effect on ride height.
You have issues with your cones,donuts or knuckles.

 
See, I read this advice in a lot of other threads before posting, and it still makes no sense to me.  I get that the other suspects are more likely most of the time as they are prone to failure over time, but that doesn't mean they are the only things that can wear out.  As such, I haven't ruled those parts out as part of the overall problem, but my initial question was about the shocks for good reason as they are in very different conditions.  It's pretty logical to assume that as they respond in completely different ways to being compressed/extended that one of them might have a problem.
 
As ar as I am aware, under normal conditions a shock absober will be partly extended when the car is on a level surface, so that it has room to both extend if the car is lifted going over a bump, but also room to compress further to absorb the shock as the car settles back down again.  
Shocks shouldnt effect ride height because it should all settle out, witht he radius arm dropping back down and leaving the shock back at that mid-extension point and the wheel at a normal height.  But if there is a fault with the shock that means it doesn't settle back to normal after compressing to soak up the impact, and instead remains at its shortest length, the end of the radius arm will be held up at a higher elevation and the wheel will sit higher in the arch.  In this case, with the shock seized, the car would sit lower on that corner.
 
Right?

Not quite if it has siezed it will sit lower higher or totally normally. It depends on where in the travel it as siezed. Just because one rear side is more compressed does not mean it is an issue there. If the wheel is not actually touching the ground then yes the issue could be there, but if it is on the ground I would be looking at why the opposite front is not compressing correctly. Again could be a dead shock but more likely something else.

[maieth]

Than you guys.  Some interesting reading and very sensible advice through all your answers, and I appreciate the time taken to go into more detail.

I'll run through the checks suggested when I start work on the car in a few minutes.

[maieth]

Well, I did a few more checks on Sunday. As many will be completely unsurprised to hear, the driver's corner is still lower So there's certainly a further problem to figure out and sort. I guess it's likely what caused the issues with my dodgy shock. So thanks for the advice and the encouragement to keep looking.

Quite disappointed as I can't have done more than 2000 miles on the new set of cones and knuckles. Someone's clearly been cutting corners with materials
Will have to see if I can borrow a mate's cone compressor over easter and strip down the suspension again.