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Locating A Vacuum Leak - No Idea Where To Start


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#1 Courtneybriton

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 03:47 PM

Hi all,

My mini has many many problems. A new one popped up today and I don't know how to go about addressing it.

 

Its a 1995 Spi. It idles very rough when it's cold out (no real issues when warm), shuddering and shaking the whole car. When i try to accelerate it loses power and I need to rev the engine a couple times in order to give it enough power to go. There is also a very loud hissing sound from the engine that I can hear from the passenger compartment.

 

Once the car is warmed up it idles much better but sounds like it is idling at a higher RPM than it should... I don't have an RPM gauge so I'm not sure how much higher. Today when I was going 60 mph (96kmph) the engine shut off completely once I stopped accelerating. It started again with no problem, but i really don't like having the engine cut out at freeway speeds.

 

From what I have read it sounds like a Vacuum leak... I don't know which locations I should check and I am not really even familiar with what components make up the vacuum system anyways. Does anyone have any diagrams or would be willing to help me figure out where to test in the engine??

 

Help is greatly appreciated. I would just take it to a professional, but as I am in the states, most mechanics don't want to touch it.

 

 



#2 spiguy

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:15 PM

Hi there. So are you saying it was fine, and then this has popped up quite suddenly?  Not sure what the outside temperature would have to do with it,maybe that is just co-incidence. First the hissing sound. Is this new? Are you sure it isn't just a noisy alternator bearing or fan belt noise?  - that can sound a bit like a hissing noise, and would appear to come from the passenger side. if you wanted to rule that out, then if you trickle some water on the fan belt while the engine is running (be very careful not to get your hands anywhere near the moving belt / alternator!) then it should go quiet or alot quieter.

 

The biggest cause of a vacuum leak on an SPi is a split vacuum pipe or rubber elbow, on the pipe that runs from the inlet manifold to the ECU MAP sensor. There is a short pipe from the back of the inlet manifold to a fuel trap (little black box near the air filter box) then a long pipe from the other leg of the fuel trap to the ECU. Check this first. Initially you are looking to make sure it hasn't popped off at the ECU end, or have any obvious splits. Next easiest thing is probably to pop it off at the ECU end and with the engine running (it will run rough) put your finger over the pipe, you should feel vacuum. If not, then there is a break somewhere in the line I described above, and you need to find it - could be anywhere from the connection at the back of the inlet manifold down to the connection at the ECU. Look for split rubber connectors as the most likely cause. Remember to put this pipe back on when you are finished.

 

There is also another pipe ( should be a red one) which comes off the inlet manifold at the back, next to the one described above. Assuming you have a standard air filter box, this one goes to a valve on the bottom of the air filter box. If you have a non standard box, this pipe should be blanked off (usually by putting a screw in it). Basically, the vacuum present on the red pipe will be passed to the yellow pipe coming out of this valve when the engine is cold - the yellow pipe attaches to a diverter flap which takes warm air off a little metal bracket under the intake pipe. Once the engine heats up the valve closes and the vacuum is not passed through, so the diverter flap closes and cold air is taken by the intake. Like with the other pipe to the ECU, any leak from the back of the manifold right down to the diverter flap could give you a vacuum leak. Again, you can use your finger over the end to test these pipes and see if there is vacuum there.

 

Other areas you could get a vacuum leak include the brake servo. There is a fairly large plastic hose connects to the black circular housing of the brake servo, this comes off the inlet manifold too. It just pops into the servo with a rubber seal. If that hose has come out or split, then  you could get a big leak there. If it is that, then it really should be quite obvious.

 

Only other place I can think off would be the hose that runs to the charcoal canister purge valve. You'll see it running along the back of the rocker cover, and ending up attached to a square valve with an electrical connector on it, mounted near the wiper motor. This valve opens periodically to purge the charcoal fuel canister under the wing, however I think this could only cause a continuous vacuum leak if there was a split in the pipe between the purge valve and the inlet manifold - if there was a split in the pipe between the charcoal cansiter and the purge valve then that would only show up when the valve is opened by the ECU, which only happens under specific conditions (eg when driving).

 

Hope this gives you something to get started on, report back with any findings.


Edited by carlukemini, 17 February 2015 - 05:19 PM.


#3 Courtneybriton

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:28 PM

Hi there. So are you saying it was fine, and then this has popped up quite suddenly?  Not sure what the outside temperature would have to do with it,maybe that is just co-incidence. First the hissing sound. Is this new? Are you sure it isn't just a noisy alternator bearing or fan belt noise?  - that can sound a bit like a hissing noise, and would appear to come from the passenger side. if you wanted to rule that out, then if you trickle some water on the fan belt while the engine is running (be very careful not to get your hands anywhere near the moving belt / alternator!) then it should go quiet or alot quieter.

 

The biggest cause of a vacuum leak on an SPi is a split vacuum pipe or rubber elbow, on the pipe that runs from the inlet manifold to the ECU MAP sensor. There is a short pipe from the back of the inlet manifold to a fuel trap (little black box near the air filter box) then a long pipe from the other leg of the fuel trap to the ECU. Check this first. Initially you are looking to make sure it hasn't popped off at the ECU end, or have any obvious splits. Next easiest thing is probably to pop it off at the ECU end and with the engine running (it will run rough) put your finger over the pipe, you should feel vacuum. If not, then there is a break somewhere in the line I described above, and you need to find it - could be anywhere from the connection at the back of the inlet manifold down to the connection at the ECU. Look for split rubber connectors as the most likely cause. Remember to put this pipe back on when you are finished.

 

There is also another pipe ( should be a red one) which comes off the inlet manifold at the back, next to the one described above. Assuming you have a standard air filter box, this one goes to a valve on the bottom of the air filter box. If you have a non standard box, this pipe should be blanked off (usually by putting a screw in it). Basically, the vacuum present on the red pipe will be passed to the yellow pipe coming out of this valve when the engine is cold - the yellow pipe attaches to a diverter flap which takes warm air off a little metal bracket under the intake pipe. Once the engine heats up the valve closes and the vacuum is not passed through, so the diverter flap closes and cold air is taken by the intake. Like with the other pipe to the ECU, any leak from the back of the manifold right down to the diverter flap could give you a vacuum leak. Again, you can use your finger over the end to test these pipes and see if there is vacuum there.

 

Other areas you could get a vacuum leak include the brake servo. There is a fairly large plastic hose connects to the black circular housing of the brake servo, this comes off the inlet manifold too. It just pops into the servo with a rubber seal. If that hose has come out or split, then  you could get a big leak there. If it is that, then it really should be quite obvious.

 

Only other place I can think off would be the hose that runs to the charcoal canister purge valve. You'll see it running along the back of the rocker cover, and ending up attached to a square valve with an electrical connector on it, mounted near the wiper motor. This valve opens periodically to purge the charcoal fuel canister under the wing, however I think this could only cause a continuous vacuum leak if there was a split in the pipe between the purge valve and the inlet manifold - if there was a split in the pipe between the charcoal cansiter and the purge valve then that would only show up when the valve is opened by the ECU, which only happens under specific conditions (eg when driving).

 

Hope this gives you something to get started on, report back with any findings.

 

WOW. You are amazing!

 

This issue has been ongoing.... I never recognized it for what it was because I thought it was tied in with my thermostat/oil leak/overheating/leaky heater matrix issue. I thought maybe I had a cracked head or blown head gasket and that all of the issues I was experiencing were tied into one.

 

I put in a new thermostat on monday, as well as a new heater core and battery. My overheating issues became solved and I discovered that my oil leak is just a differential pot seal. So the hissing and power loss had to be associated to something else... I will go ahead and check out all the points you suggested and report back! Thank you so much for putting your time into helping me!



#4 spiguy

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:37 PM


 

WOW. You are amazing!

 

 

Ha ha, never been called that before! Many other things mind you.... Let's just see though, we haven't got to the bottom of it yet. If I actually turn out to have helped you find the problem then I'll take some complimentary comments, but not before :D

 

Just keep us updated with anything you find and we will work through it. Hopefully something silly like a cracked vacuum elbow.



#5 pusb

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:37 PM

I had an issue with a hissing sound myself last year, I thought that was a vacuum leak. All it turned out to be was I had spilt some coolant onto the fan belt.

 

Running over the fan belt with a piece of chalk seemed to soak up all the moisture and stop the noise.

 

I know that wouldn't have anything to do with your running problems, but maybe the two issues are unrelated?



#6 spiguy

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 05:41 PM

I had an issue with a hissing sound myself last year, I thought that was a vacuum leak. All it turned out to be was I had spilt some coolant onto the fan belt.

 

Running over the fan belt with a piece of chalk seemed to soak up all the moisture and stop the noise.

 

I know that wouldn't have anything to do with your running problems, but maybe the two issues are unrelated?

 

I tend to think the hissing noise is a red herring too, my alternator bearing is getting a bit dry now, and I would describe that as a hissing sound. If I run water on it with the hose it shuts up (for a few seconds!)



#7 Courtneybriton

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:15 PM

 

I had an issue with a hissing sound myself last year, I thought that was a vacuum leak. All it turned out to be was I had spilt some coolant onto the fan belt.

 

Running over the fan belt with a piece of chalk seemed to soak up all the moisture and stop the noise.

 

I know that wouldn't have anything to do with your running problems, but maybe the two issues are unrelated?

 

I tend to think the hissing noise is a red herring too, my alternator bearing is getting a bit dry now, and I would describe that as a hissing sound. If I run water on it with the hose it shuts up (for a few seconds!)

 

 

 

So I went out and listened to it just now, and the hissing noise seems to be coming from behind the Air cleaner somewhere. One of my . I can hear it in the passenger compartment as well, and when i try to listen to it it seems to come from the very center of the Dashboard.

 

This piece was broken apart for sure:

https://minispares.c...l/PHP10027.aspx

 

I sealed that up but there is still a hiss as well as an intermittent whistle.

I'll take apart some stuff and update.



#8 minisilverbullet

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:21 PM

I would take of all 4 vacuum lines - the yellow, the red, the short black and long black.

 

Inspect these for splits. then refit / replace. Really common issue. 



#9 spiguy

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Posted 17 February 2015 - 10:30 PM

Did you check the most important one, the one that goes to the ECU? That yellow one operates the cold / hot air flap, of all of them that would probably give you the least effect on running if it was leaking. What about the servo vacuum pipe?

 

EDIT - Did you check the yellow pipe with the engine cold? bear in mind that with the engine hot, then this pipe will not have any vacuum present on it anyway, since the valve it is attached to will be closed with a warm engine. To fully check this pipe, remove it at both ends (on the flap and on the underside of the air box) and try sucking it with your finger over the other end and see if it holds vacuum


Edited by carlukemini, 17 February 2015 - 11:15 PM.


#10 southlincspickup

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 08:30 PM

evening all

anyone able to help with the pipework to my charcoal canister?

I have had to cut new holes for the two pipes that go to the top of the can but, anyone know where the large pipe that comes out of the bottom of the can goes???

thanks Steve






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