22 replies to this topic

[Senator Andy]

Good Day!

 

So, 20 years ago, on a whim, I bought a 66 mini cooper S for my wife for her birthday.  It was the quickest thing we had been in (we race vintage porsche) and was just a ball!

 

In 1998 (I think), we took the car to the Annual USA mini event in Rhode Island, as we knew very little about the car, other than what the seller represented as the car was a true Cooper S, and that this car was one of the "Factory Race Cars".  Was not so sure of that then, but we went to the show to see if we could find out any info on the car......

 

After some prodding, we met with some fine folk from the British Heritage, who we dragged to the car to check it out, as they were very pessimistic that the care was both a Cooper S and a Factory car.

 

When they got to the car, one of them noticed the wheels and went on a tirade about the wheels, suggesting that the car had a rare set of the John Cooper, hand cast, Magnesium race wheels.

 

Then the discussion and events changed.

 

Next thing we knew, there were about 50 people clamoring over the car and picking it apart to check of authenticness. Frankly it got a bit overwhelming

 

We were convinced to take the wheels off the car and on the spot buy some current mags with tires to drive home with, as some there thought the wheels were priceless...

 

We did so, and brought the car home.

 

Couple months later, we received a packet from the seller's estate, with original correspondence from the buyer and Mr Colin J, Fisher (Sales Manger) and Michael Marlow from Dowton Engineering Works Ltd.

 

The packet included a few months of correspondence between the buyer and Downton, inquiring if the company could build a Factory Race Car and ship it to USA.

 

The correspondence is very complete and provides costs for almost everything, right down to the 3lbs to polish and match the intake manifold.

 

I am also told that due to the buyer no committing to having a Professional Navigator, that the entire dash was actually placed into the drivers door, so the amateur Navigator could not reach the controls.

 

The car only has 8500 miles on it and looks to have been repainted twice (The British Heritage Trust Certificate I just ordered says the car was shipped in Old English White, with Black roof) and when I bought the car it was yellow.   I did a respray in yellow as the car was faded in 2002.

 

Also, back when I was driving it on a somewhat regular basis, one of the Tappet covers blew off.  I put the cover back on and it blew off again,  I got concerned with the long term potential value of the car, so I put in a Mini Mania 1380cc with tranny (which, by the way makes the car much slower than the factory motor).

 

Other than that , I did replace the factory hydro elastic suspension with a rubber cone set up in 1999.

 

So, I am asking for our help and advice to verify if these wheels are actually a set of the rare JC Mag wheels and I'd love some advice as to what people think the car may be worth today (great, great shape) as my wife and I are considering selling it as we have not driven it in 5 years.

 

I've attached pics of the wheel and a couple pieces of the doc's from Dowton. and I'm happy to answer any questions.

 

Best

 

Andy

Attached Files

•  Classic mini Wheel Mag rear.JPG   53.49K   59 downloads
•  Classic Mini Wheel Mag front.JPG   35.74K   109 downloads
•  Downton intro letter December 1965.pdf   943.16K   92 downloads
•  Downton specifications letter mini.pdf   804.13K   64 downloads
•  Downton conversions mini full race prep list.pdf   913.58K   68 downloads
•  British Motor Industry technical data Mini.pdf   347.5K   57 downloads

[mab01uk]

I would also post this on the Mk1 Forum link below where there are several experts on Downton and works Mini's who will be keen to help you with the history of your car and wheels, etc.

http://mk1-forum.net/

[JC T ONE]

Hello Andy,  

 

sounds like one amazing (and well documented) car

 

Would love to hear more ? and see some detailed Pictures.

 

Jens Christian

[Senator Andy]

Thanks guys!

 

i've got to get to my warehouse and drag it out for pics of the car, and I'm about to go on a 2 week va ca......

[Dusky]

A question for you: what happend with the original engine?;)

[mk1mark]

Looks like a very interesting car!

 

Having read the story & looked at the paperwork, it all checks out very nicely.   The "Specification" sheet is obviously something drawn up by the buyer before the deal was done.  I love the idea of an Auto Tx on a Full Race conversion

 

To say it is a "Full Factory" race conversion isn't strictly correct, it is obviously a straight forward Customer conversion.  Here's a copy of the standard Downton Full Race conversion spec sheet.  I would suggest that a "Full Factory" conversion would be a car that was prepared for either "The factory" i.e BMC Comps @ Abingdon or for use as a Downton Sponsored "Works" drive.  The spec of these engines would not be substantially different to the customer spec, but you can bet a pound to a pinch of **** that the true works cars would still have the edge over a customer engine.

 

 

As far as the wheels are concerned, they do look like a very, very good set of original Mag Alloy wheels that were used on the CCC racers.  They were not however exclusive to JC but were generally sold through Derrington.

 

http://mk1-performan...ngton_cat_1.pdf (Page 14)

 

While these are fairly rare, mainly due to their nasty habit of fizzing away to nothing in damp conditions, they are not quite the holy grail item that you were told they were.

 

It is not clear from the story above or for that matter the paperwork whether the car was ever actually used in competition or was simply used as a road warrior.  If it had documentable competition history then the value would be somewhat greater than if simply a street racer.

 

As far as value is concerned, it is hard to comment without pictures & a bit more info, but suffice to say at this point a bog standard un messed with cooper S starts at around £20,000 nowadays.  A genuine un messed with Downton tuned racer is going to hold a considerable premium on any similar Cooper S.

 

As others have said, more pictures & info would be both useful & interesting.

 

As an interesting asside, Michael Marlow only worked in the sales office for a very short period of time during Autumn 1965.  I have no idea what happened to him.

 

For lots more info check out the Downton section of my web site http://mk1-performan....uk/downton.htm

 

Mark F

(http://mk1-performan...nversions.co.uk)

[Senator Andy]

Dusky, I have the original engine still, but it is out of the car

 

Best

 

Andy

[Senator Andy]

Mark;

 

Thanks so much for the insight and info.  Let me re-digest your email and I'll circle back

 

I will also work to get pics of the car and motor this week, before I leave on Va Ca, if I can

 

Best

 

Andy

[Haynes]

Try contacting The Downton Engineering Works Social club via http://www.bjautobits.co.uk/dews.htm . This is a car club run by Steve Harris a former Downton employee.

[Senator Andy]

Thanks Haynes!

[Senator Andy]

Mark;

 

Thanks so much for the info!

 

I am trying to get pics before I leave on Va Ca and am happy to provide more of the document stuff, as I have a bunch of correspondence between the buyer and Dowton.

 

As to racing history, I have no data on that, other than the dash being placed in the door (have you seen any other cars like that?) for the "novice navigator" statement.

 

As to the motor, yea, it is much faster than the 1380 in it now........  Surprising how much....

 

Best

 

Andy

[Senator Andy]

Ok, so I had one of my employees take a couple of pics, but acknowledging that event the most stunning model on earth can look like my grandmother..... Nevertheless, a pic of the door controls and general side

 

I'll get some real pics when I get back

 

But overall the car is very very clean and no rust, dents etc....  Paint is very very good

Attached Files

•  Mini door and dash.jpg   85.17K   186 downloads
•  mini seft side.jpg   106.53K   172 downloads
•  Mini front windshield.jpg   45.44K   127 downloads
•  Mini front windshield.jpg   45.44K   86 downloads

[mk1mark]

Very nice!

 

Looks like a cracking Min.  Lovely original Restall drivers seat in it, as supplied by Downton, also the Moto-Lita wheel. Dtn were also agents for Moto-Lita.

 

When did it acquire the Safety Devices cage?

 

M

[Senator Andy]

Sorry, forgot when I pick up the car, some of the docs said the car had a 4 point cage, but it was not in the car so I put one in

[JC T ONE]

Very nice :) love the door console ;)