9 replies to this topic

[Shawbags]

I HAVE NOTICED A FEW PEOPLE ON HERE WANTING TO USE THE ABOVE PAINT AND HAVE NO IDEA HOW DANGEROUS IT CAN BE , IT IS A VERY DANGEROUS PAINT MIXED WITH NASTY CHEMICALS AND CAN KILL IF IT IS NOT USED PROPERLY , CAN ANY OTHERS ON THIS SITE GIVE MORE DETAILS OF THE DANGERS OF USING THIS PAINT , PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW ESPECIALY SOME OF THE YOUNGER MEMBERS , CHEERS SHAWBAGS .

[Stu.]

Good to raise awareness. This topics been covered quite a lot on TMF. I would also like to point out that the ONLY way to ensure you are using / wearing the correct personal protective equipment for the paint you wish to use would be to read and fully understand the associated safety data sheet for that paint. These should be available from the paint supplier on request, but if in doubt, dont use it.

[Daz1968]

I agree with points above, always read the msds and tds for paint you are using and wear appropriate ppe. I really think you are confusing epoxy 2k with normal isocyanate 2k though, epoxy does not require airfed and a filter mask to a2/p3 is what the msds calls for.

[cookie4343]

You can buy isocyanate free air drying hardener now days, I had a word with a local paint shop about it but was advised against it for a quik turn around as apparently takes a lot longer to fully harden.

[Steve220]

Like any paint, it should be used in a well ventilated area. I think that goes without saying. 

[ibrooks]

Lots of mixed terminology and some of it overlaps.

 

2-Pack or 2K (European term for 2 component - 2 komponent or whatever the German word is). This just means a paint where you mix 2 parts to make it cure. With cellulose you will almost always add thinners but it's not a 2K paint as the paint will cure without the addition of the thinners. Whilst you never want to be breathing in the fumes from any paint not all 2K paints contain stuff that is as poisonous as isocyanates and therefore with some a decent filter mask to the correct standard is usually sufficient (a chemically active filter and not just a dust mask) - epoxies usually come under this category.

 

Isocyanate - this is the really nasty stuff. It's a 2K paint and generally what people are talking about if they just say 2K or 2-pack without qualifying it. It contains compounds based on cyanide and is deadly poisonous. The biggest problem is that it enters the body through absorbtion quite readily so the obvious problem of breathing it in is not the only one to be careful of. It's generally absorbed through moist areas more easily so as well as the obvious nose mouth and lungs it can be absorbed through the eyes and even thinner areas of the body surface where you sweat (between the fingers is a favourite when spraying). If you are lucky it might just leave you with permanent health problems like impaired breathing or damage to internal organs but there is a very real danger that it will kill you with only minor exposure. With this stuff you MUST cover up and use an air fed mask which is supplying a filtered air supply from a clean area. It's no good if the compressor supplying the air is sucking paint fumes and feeding them to your mask - you would be amazed how often this is the case.

 

I think what cookie4343 may be referring to is "non-iso" hardener for isocyanate paint. I've seen it advertised but from the few people that I've heard of using it it's not really that good.

 

With all the above think about what you are doing with any fumes that escape the area you are painting in. It's no good protecting yourself in the garage if you are poisoning the neighbours in their garden.

 

Be safe folks and read, understand and follow the instructions or you may do yourself (or worse someone else) serious harm.

 

There are always people who pop up with this sort of discussion who say they've been spraying with iso and just a damp rag tied over their face for years with no ill effects and that may well be the case but I wouldn't do it and I'd strongly advise you to ignore anything they say.

 

Iain

[sonikk4]

It goes without saying if you are not sure READ UP ON IT or see a specialist who use these types of paint.

 

We hear so many times "iv'e used this with only a cheap mask etc etc tec" well good luck with that its your own health. But do not say its safe and "i'm ok."

 

People are too blase about this stuff. There are H&S regulations about this and other paints as well and its there for a reason. At work we have to have a medical first before we are authorised to spray, then followed up by urine checks after spraying to ensure all is good with our equipment. The air fed breathing masks are face fitted as well, meaning they are checked by a competent person to ensure they fit your face correctly.

 

Even celly can have effects on your breathing, after all its a solvent based product. So if in doubt about paint products especially 2 pack etc have a read of these links

http://www.hse.gov.u...bns/indg473.pdf

http://www.hse.gov.u...iced/hsg276.pdf

[Shawbags]

I agree with points above, always read the msds and tds for paint you are using and wear appropriate ppe. I really think you are confusing epoxy 2k with normal isocyanate 2k though, epoxy does not require airfed and a filter mask to a2/p3 is what the msds calls for.

Thanks for putting me strait when ever I here 2 pack I instantly think poisonous .

[castafiore]

I must admit I find the iso/non iso/2k paint thing confusing. IIRC someone on the mig forum confirmed with Lechler that their 29107 primer was non iso, but with many paints it's not always clear from the safety info.

When paints are described as 'solvent basecoat' but not listed as 2k, would I be right in thinking they are non iso acrylic?

[ibrooks]

Solvent basecoat doesn't generally mean it's a 2K paint. The term suggests that the paint is carried in a solvent which is usually something like celly where the solvent is a volatile which will evaporate off leaving the solid paint behind. Not actually a chemical cure as such.

 

Acrylic is a solvent system but generally the solvent is something fairly benign like water (which is why they almost always have to be used in an oven or they take forever to cure).

 

So solvent basecoat is a family of paints but the term on it's own still doesn't narrow it down that much as to just what is in the can.

 

Iain