20 replies to this topic

[Spider]

Just wondering if any one has done or knows of a Coil on Plug Ignition System conversion kit?

[Steve220]

They are pretty simple to make. Does your system use wasted spark or individual firing?

[nicklouse]

Not sure why you would want to. Extra mass on the plugs and no support.

I would twin coil it with a crank sensor and a interesting ECU which can be pluged into wheel speed sensors, throttle application etc etc etc.

[sledgehammer]

I was looking at a simple coil pack system

 

but came unstuck on advance / retard setup

 

coil packs are cheap enough & don't need to be above the plug

 

even coil on plug could have a lead , so it don't have to be above the plug

 

a motorbike one 12v (so it says)

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2324645b8f

Edited by sledgehammer, 15 December 2014 - 09:18 PM.

[Spider]

Thanks for the responses 

 

 

They are pretty simple to make. Does your system use wasted spark or individual firing?

 

I don't have anything and have looked on and off for a while, some of the stuff on the net I'm sure would be suitable, but it always seems (to me at least!) they are talking another language. Given the choice, I'd prefer Individual Firing.

 

I am up to making one no sweat, but not up to designing it and if it's fitted with some type of progamable chip, possibly not up to writing any type of code or loading it on the chip. I'm OK with electronics, but largely pre-digital (and before someone starts, yes, post valve era - I'm an old bastard, but not that old!)

 

 

Not sure why you would want to. Extra mass on the plugs and no support.

I would twin coil it with a crank sensor and a interesting ECU which can be pluged into wheel speed sensors, throttle application etc etc etc.

 

I can support the Coil Packs no problem. My reasons are wanting do do away completely with HT leads, mainly for river crossings as it is nearly always these which lets one down when crossing. There are other advantages as well, but most of those are shared with twin pak coils and the like.

Edited by Moke Spider, 15 December 2014 - 11:31 PM.

[nicklouse]

Ok problem seen.

But are HT leads such a problem?

Maybe I am odd but I never ever had water issues with the ignition.

Once I had understood the benefit of quality leads.

Nothing better to show this than trying to start a mini in the dark with poor leads and watching the spark travel down the outside of the lead to the head.

Interesting idea though. Can't see it being an issue. BUT what about the trigger? Will not that get effected by water?

[Spider]

I have been through most of the HT leads on our local market, I have found some which are OK, though with nearly all of them, just to clarify, I found it wasn't the lead itself that gives trouble, but the boots on the ends, so I found some which were OK as I mentioned, but I've also found that their life isn't what I'd call great either. I'm not running a simulated lightning type ignition system either, just a Bosch GT40 coil (a poor mans sports coil).

 

You do make a good point regarding the trigger. I had it in mind to either drive that from the existing dissy drive (yes, I know, many short comings and almost negates the advanages) or more likely from the Cam Sprocket, or I guess if a wasted spark system was adopted, from the crank pulley (not that I know much about wasted spark). I don't have any experience with triggers but am keen to learn from other's experiences, do's and don'ts.

 

If I were to put a wish list together for this system, I'd also like to include a MAP sensor and a Knock Sensor as with many of our travels, fuel quality is so radically variable, it's not really possible to do a tune, set and forget with a stock type system.

[nicklouse]

Some beer powered thinking.

DNS classics timing cover. Custom made with tigger mount to read off cam sprocket.

Using a Polestar management system. Custom plots etc can have a few for different fuel grades.

The cover http://www.dsnclassi...t-billet-alloy/

Should be possible to make some custom changes.


I had one of Neil's very first systems where we had to change chips to change plots. It was just ignition back then.

http://www.polestarsystems.com

Options. Possibilities.

[Mini Manannán]

If you want a dependable plug cap these are the ones I'd recommend without hesitation: http://gsparkplug.co...ap-pro0u-r.html

 

 A long, long time ago when I was racing 210 Villiers karts I had terrible problems every there was a hint of rain.  i changed to those caps and never had a problem again

[Spider]

Some beer powered thinking.

DNS classics timing cover. Custom made with tigger mount to read off cam sprocket.

Using a Polestar management system. Custom plots etc can have a few for different fuel grades.

The cover http://www.dsnclassi...t-billet-alloy/

Should be possible to make some custom changes.


I had one of Neil's very first systems where we had to change chips to change plots. It was just ignition back then.

http://www.polestarsystems.com

Options. Possibilities.

 

Many thanks indeed for that, I'll look in to it for sure.

 

 

If you want a dependable plug cap these are the ones I'd recommend without hesitation: http://gsparkplug.co...ap-pro0u-r.html

 

 A long, long time ago when I was racing 210 Villiers karts I had terrible problems every there was a hint of rain.  i changed to those caps and never had a problem again

 

WOW, they do look much better than anything I've seen until now. I'll try some for sure, but still keen to pursue the COP option all the same, I also feel it will (might?) tidy up the fron of the engine as well.

[nicklouse]

I am planing on their timing gear cover as is with tigger mount. A MED crank pully with trigger wheel. And the suitable trigger and a polestar ECU. And a bung for the dizzy hole.


Still concerned about your starter and alternator and water. Ok generally they are fine with water and it is oil that messes them up.

But a flywheel trigger is kinda out due to water ingress. Crank damper trigger same issue.

But tigger in the timing gear cover. That could work. Not sure of any options. But then you have the oil. Lesser of all evils?

Once the mechanics are done the rest is not hard for people who can.

And to be honest you have the machining sorted. But it might be more cost effective to use someone elses NC code. Licensing?

[Spider]

I'll watch your progress (when you get to that bit!)

 

Starter doesn't seem phased by water, then again, I'm currently using a Hitachi Starter but I have an even better one for down the track. Likwise, the Alternator too doesn't seem phased by water, it's just an off the shelf Lucas copy 70 amp unit. I dare say though that the life of them will be shortened, but it's not life I drive through river crossings all the time, maybe once or twice on a trip.

 

The modern petrol 4WD's must run some sort of trigger and as far as I am aware, the trigger hasn't been an issue for them so maybe that's an avenue I should look at?

 

If I drove the Trigger from the Cam Sprocket, I'd likly fit a seal to the cover and bring a rotating shaft out. Another otion would be to use the mechanical fuel pump hole (I run an electric pump) with some type of pick up there. Or, as you've touched on the flywheel, although not sealed, hardly any water seems to get in and really, it wouldn't be a difficult job to seal it and yet still let it breath.

 

While it does need to be carfully considered, I don't think the trigger side of it would present a serious obstacle.

[gazza82]

http://gsparkplug.co...rminal-red.html

 

Seems the ones Mini Manannán quoted are out-of-stock, but they do others ... in purple too!

 

 

I know someone that has something similar on an A35 (inline turbo'd A-series) ... that uses the crank pick-up on the timing case and Ford coilpacks, but I think they are remote from the plugs and still use HT leads ... might be a megasquirt unit but he's prone to tinkering and it could be a completely custom setup. He can adjust timing, etc from the driver's seat!

Edited by gazza82, 16 December 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[mini13]

what on earth are you doing that needs so much water protection!!!

 

I would say COP is not a solution for a mini unless your running a head that has plugs down a hole ie one of the 16valvers. I think you'll introduce more issues. Personally I would look at getting some aircraft plug covers (similar to that posted above), and siliconing all the HT joints.

 

what could work is "Coil near plug"... the chevy LS2's have some neat individual coil packs that really chuck out some power, a lot of the Megasquirt users run them.

 

in terms of water and crank sensors, they are not really affected, only at the connector, but these have seals, and a load of vasalene in there will keep almost any amount of water out.

[Spider]

what on earth are you doing that needs so much water protection!!!

 

 

Not much - Truely!  Just some puddle jumping;-

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks guys, all good info. I have no experience so good to get some feed back, ideas and tips.

Edited by Moke Spider, 16 December 2014 - 10:44 AM.