16 replies to this topic

[sedmann]

Hi guys. Really quick question, well two into one haha. What is the easiest and cheapest engine conversion to do on a mini? That offers around or over 100bhp. Thanks a lot.

[The Matt]

It's going to be dependent on a few things:

 

What's your budget?

What's your skill level?

Do you want to keep the shell as standard as possible or are you happy to modify it?

[Alex_B]

Easy and cheap very rarely go hand in hand, the easiest conversions tend to be the ones where you buy the whole kit in one lump and then modify the shell and bolt it all together. Those however are very expensive. If you want to do it on the cheap then you will be wanting to modify the standard subframe or make your own and then buy the bits you need, normally as a donor car, and fabricate everything you need. But that isnt easy as you have to be pretty handy with a welder and think outside the box occasionally. 

[sedmann]

Having no inner wings etc doesnt matter as i will be replacing the front end mo matter what. Im not sure on budget, as that is the reason im asking. I dont know whether to keep my 1275 but if some form of vauxhall conversion isnt too expensive then, ill get researching! But i dont know which engine conversions are the cheapest? Which ones are the easiest? Which are the most common snd have the most infomation about them online. This doesnt include kits like the z cars subframes etc. thanks for the help so far!

[l_jonez]

Easiest is probably the Micra followed closely by the swift gti, they are not bolt in though.
Price completely depends on your skill and willingness to fabricate.

[The Matt]

To be honest, it's worth spending some time reading through projects in the Engine Conversion on here, or having a look on 16v Mini Forum for ideas and the work involved.

My Vauxhall 1.6 16v conversion probably cost about £5k. Maybe 6k. But it all depends on how much you want to fabricate for yourself.

If you want a bolt in subframe, £500 minimum (but mine was more like 1300 with all of the other bits)
Shell work will pretty much always be required.
Engine can be cheap, but I had mine rebuilt and modded. Things like whether you want injection or carb/carbs all come into the cost. My fuelling setup alone was well in excess of a grand using a few second hand bits and bobs.

So, if you're making your own subframe and just putting a standard second hand Micra engine and box in, it could be done for probably 500 quid and a load of work. If you want to do something like I did with bolt in subframe (that still requires shell mods) and a decent engine that's been modified, allow more like 5000 quid. Or anything in between.

[Icey]

This question gets asked....a lot. I'd suggest having a search through the forum and then looking at some build threads to get an idea of just how much effort (and money) it takes.

 

The realistic response is that there is no 'easy' engine conversion. The reasons are many and varied; unless you are a competent DIYer and/or have deep pockets, engine conversions aren't as fun as you'd think.

 

Don't get me wrong - if you're doing this as an engineering exercise go have fun, it'll be a learning curve. If you're looking for a way of getting a bit more power, work with what you have until the cost of making more power exceeds the cost of doing a conversion and then revisit the idea.

[Anthony30]

Would a 3 cylinder engine not be easier, due to the width issues?

[Icey]

Size is only one issue out of many. You still all the others - drive shafts, electrical, exhaust routing, firewall/bulkhead modifications (if needed), gear linkage, fueling...etc..etc....

 

This is the bit that's forgotten - solving one issue doesn't make the others go away. The most common is that you can get modern, more powerful engines quite cheaply (e.g the Vauxhall C/E or even X/Z engines can be bought very cheaply) but when you try to fit them the money saved on the engine itself is very quickly eaten up by all the other modifications/custom parts required.

[The Matt]

Exactly as above.  You can get engines for £150, gearboxes for £50 or less even. And they can be in good condition.  I think that's part of the attraction of engine conversions in some people's eyes.

 

What a lot of people don't allow for is that in some cases the "modern" engine they're fitting is still 20+ years old.  I fitted an early Corsa GSI engine (I think from a 93 car)  I spent £1000 on rebore, head recon and a bit of porting, crank regrind.  Then I spent about £300-400 on engine upgrades like fixed belt tensioners, upgraded belt pulleys, upgraded rod and head bolts etc.  Then there's the "making it work in the Mini" bit.  Driveshafts, gear linkages, engine mounts, fuelling it.  Changing your tank for an MPI one if you're going for injection, fitting the return fuel line, fitting upgraded fuel pump, fitting upgraded fuel regulators etc.  

 

These modern engines like the C20XE engine can be close to 30 years old now. If they're pulled from even a 15 year old car they could have 100,000 miles on the clock easily. They don't all run perfectly with no issues so you do have to pay a LOT of attention to that when you're buying it.

 

I think some of the more modern smaller bore boosted engines would be great to look at.  Things like the Ford Ecoboost ones, yeah, maybe even some of these little 3 cylinder ones.  You ideally want your new engine and gearbox to weigh about the same as the standard A-Series so you don't end up too front heavy.

 

And then there's the insurance. If you're old (like me, I'm 37) it's dirt cheap to insure.  Mine was £145 a year with all mods declared on a 6000 mile limit.  But if you're anything under 21 it'll be a NIGHTMARE to insure it.

 

They're a great project and if done right they can reap massive rewards. But there are many simpler ways of getting a Mini to go quicker.  If it's the added reliability you're after from the engine conversion, then there are also upgrades you can do to the A-Series to make it more reliable too.

 

Definitely worth having a good read through other people's projects on here and on 16V.

[fenghuang]

There's lots to read on the subject over at the 16v Mini Club forum.
The easiest option is probably to buy one someone else has already done. (Seriously!!!!) it's probably also the cheapest way.

Edited by fenghuang, 07 December 2014 - 09:49 AM.

[The Matt]

There's lots to read on the subject over at the 16v Mini Club forum.
The easiest option is probably to buy one someone else has already done. (Seriously!!!!) it's probably also the cheapest way.

 

Yup, definitely true.  Once I'd finished my VX one, I stripped it out as I'd got bored and sold the whole subframe, engine, gearbox, exhaust, Jenveys, wiring loom and ECU as a package for £2k.  Then it really was a bolt in job!

[M J W J]

Matt covers it really well.

 

I'm part way through my vauxhall conversion and restoration and I am around the £3k mark already.

 

Simple answer to the question. NONE. They all have their issues. If I was to do another engine conversion I would either do another small block Vauxhall engine or the micra engine but they are still a lot more work than just fitting an A series engine into a mini.

 

In answer to Anthony30's question. No. It would be a unique conversion so it would take a lot more effort to do as everything would have to be figured out. With the other conversions (micra, vauxhall, honda, rover, suzuki, 4eft, 4age) most of the major issues have been resolved as someone has done it before.

[splintercat]

One of the easiest to do is the rover K series,

There are loads of rovers out there and so up grades and swaps and spares are plentiful

loads of the parts you need are readily available from the rovers and Metros out there ie engine boxes brakes wheels looms ecus

there is plenty of choice as regards subframe options

there is lots of advice guidance readily available out there from all the converts to the dark side

It's a reasonable outlay for plenty of extra horses

you can fit a k series into a standard front without extending the bodywork

they go like stink when you have done em

And if you just fit the bog standard engine n box then the insurance aspect isn't that bad  as even tho you are modifying your car and putting in a bigger egine  they take into consideration that you are onl still putting in a factory produced engine so it can even sometimes be cheaper to put in a bigger engine rather than upgrade an existing one......

for a full   list of options available see........16v mini forum Rover/Vauxhall/Honda/Suzuki etc

[The Matt]

One of the easiest to do is the rover K series..........

 

To be honest about it; once I'd finished my VX conversion I really wished I had done a K-Series instead.  I don't really know why and I wouldn't tackle one now, but it just seems like it's the "right" engine upgrade for the car.  Some kind of Heritage/Brand Loyalty thing going on in my mind, possibly?

 

We've got one at the unit at the moment, though.  A 1.8 K Series in a Clubby estate.  Fits in there lovely!