20 replies to this topic

[CaptBen]

I am looking at a 1973 Mini Innocenti 1300 which seems a really good price -6,800€ or 5400 pounds

It is a 1300 - did they only do a cooper 1300 or were there other variations?

What should I look out for to confirm original?

Are there any websites to help with this?

Obviously rust is the main issue to watch out for 

Any other tips appreciated

thanks

Ben

[Artful Dodger]

the 1300 engine should have tappet chest covers on the back of the block, the cylinder head should also have studs on each side of the rocker cover (research 11 stud mini cylinder heads)

 

it should have a cooper S remote gearbox and inside the car everything should be in italian and its obviously got to be a left hooker. the doors should have quaterlights in as well.

 

the rear bootlid should have a small motorbike numberplate recess in it instead of the typical english one and the numberplate light is a small chrome light.:)

[CaptBen]

Thanks for this - I will research on what you have mentioned. I am in France and the car is a left hooker. Sounds Kosher so I am very excited! Just praying she is not a rust bucket!

Cheers

Ben

[Cooperman]

The 1973 will be an Innocenti Mini-Cooper 1300.

It will have he following:

A GT type block with no cam chest covers

An 11-stud head

It will be left-hand-drive - there were no RHD Innos that I know of. I believe that was part of the licence build arrangement.

The final drive ratio will be 3.44:1.

Drive shaft couplings will be Hardy Spicer type.

Brakes will be 7.5" Cooper 'S' type

It will have a remote servo operating only on the front brakes.

Wheels will be as in the attached photo, as will dashboard.

There will be a red 'Export' badge on the A-panel.

The carbs will be twin HS2's on an alloy manifold.

There will be a header tank for the radiator (see photo)

The doors will have opening quarter-lights, unless it was originally a German market car in which case the quarter-lights won't open.

Dashboard will be beautiful.

Headlight rims will be different from UK made Minis.

It should not have wheel arch extensions.

There will be round side repeater indicators on the front wings.

Bootlid will be different in that the number plate recess will be square.

Exhaust should be centre exit as standard.

Gearbox will be the later rod-change type.

It will have wind-down windows and small full length storage bins on each door.

 

I have loads of detailed photos if that is any help, just PM me your personal email. Here are a few to be going on with and I hope they help. The Inno 1300 Export is a really beautiful Mini, possibly the best there ever was:

 

[Carlos W]

Dashboard will be beautiful.

 

That is truly beautiful

[Cooperman]

I bought that one for £2000 with no rear seats, it had a dented bootlid, a smashed RH rear light, It had been converted (badly) to RHD. The carpets were very bad. It had no door pockets (they were hard to find). Most of the trim was bad and the front seats had been largely eaten by mice. The roof paint, biance aviore, was in poor shape. One wing was slightly damaged and needed repainting in the correct blue. Engine ran badly. Exhaust was wrong. It needed all new suspension bushes and ball joints.

The photos are after a full re-built, including engine and gearbox.

The engine has 75 bhp as standard as it is a full Mk.1 Cooper 'S' specification in terms of head, cam & carbs, etc.

It was simply great to drive and so much nicer than my Mk.1 'S' rally car on the normal roads. I fitted SPAX dampers.

[MaxAndPaddy]

I bought that one for £2000 with no rear seats, it had a dented bootlid, a smashed RH rear light, It had been converted (badly) to RHD. The carpets were very bad. It had no door pockets (they were hard to find). Most of the trim was bad and the front seats had been largely eaten by mice. The roof paint, biance aviore, was in poor shape. One wing was slightly damaged and needed repainting in the correct blue. Engine ran badly. Exhaust was wrong. It needed all new suspension bushes and ball joints.

The photos are after a full re-built, including engine and gearbox.

The engine has 75 bhp as standard as it is a full Mk.1 Cooper 'S' specification in terms of head, cam & carbs, etc.

It was simply great to drive and so much nicer than my Mk.1 'S' rally car on the normal roads. I fitted SPAX dampers.

 

Seen all the pics on this car, stunning car.

[mab01uk]

I remember the Innocenti Mini's had the larger rear lights with built in reversing lights long before they appeared on Mk4 Mini's in the UK, replacing the earlier Mk2/3 rear light units. The original Innocenti rear lights were made by Carello but most UK built Mini's had the Lucas versions which had different patterns on the lenses, see below......not sure how many variations were made of each but I think BL was by then using more than one source of suppliers for many components to allow production to continue when strikes happened.

 

 

 

Edited by mab01uk, 22 November 2014 - 10:09 AM.

[brownspeed]

why the hell didn't BLMC fit those dashes to OUR cars. I've never seen inside one before; and I think that is the definitive dash for any mini

[CaptBen]

http://i209.photobuc...07/IMG_5399.jpg

http://i209.photobuc...07/IMG_5396.jpg

http://i209.photobuc...07/IMG_5395.jpg

http://i209.photobuc...07/IMG_5394.jpg

http://i209.photobuc...07/IMG_5392.jpg

http://i209.photobuc...07/IMG_5390.jpg

http://i209.photobuc...07/IMG_5387.jpg

 

Thanks for the additional info.

Just got back from looking at the car, which was not as well finished as I was hoping  - but I guess this is why it was a bit cheaper than others at around £5,800.

The bad:

Paintwork is new, but orange peel - he said not thick enough coat to wet sand back

I could see some filler areas just before the front wings in front of the windscreen 

Badly fitted bonnet

Rear boot was not original

front seats bucket, not original, rears original but not fixed bases (slide around)

One of the quarter light window latches does not work well.

Alloy Wheels were said to be period correct but obviously not original - need refurb  (Mambo)

Carbs need tuning as would not idle, but sounded smooth

Front Seats not original - cheap buckets 

Good 

No rust evident

Engine sounded smooth

No dents

Fairly original - except boot, wheels, steering wheel, front seats

Seemed fairly genuine except for items mentioned

Hope to test drive as awaiting documentation coming through (reg papers)

 

- Any comments??

Thanks

Ben

[cal844]

I wouldnt have bought it, id have saved for the genuine article

Just my opinion though

[Cooperman]

It would not be hard to make it as original. If done properly the car would be worth between £10500 and £12500 (and will continue to increase).

So for the difference you could get the body restored and re-painted, the correct wheels (those look horrible on that car IMHO), fit the correct steering wheel and tidy it all up. You could find a boot lid for around £250 (that's what I sold the two spare boot lids for each).

The best thing is that it has not been converted to right-hand-drive. I never know why people do that to Innos when the beautiful instruments are then no longer in front of the driver and there was never a RHD Inno as original. That was one reason mine was cheap to buy.

That price looks right to me and the potential to build it into a superb Innocent is there.

[CaptBen]

I am going to look at another one being sold by a dealer for £7,164 - which looks more original and will then have a better gauge of whether this car is worth the money

 

- How close is the Innocenti Cooper to a mini Cooper S?

What are the differences performance wise?

Seems from an investment point of view these cars should hold -if not increase in value?

But only if in original condition

cheers

Ben

[Cooperman]

I am going to look at another one being sold by a dealer for £7,164 - which looks more original and will then have a better gauge of whether this car is worth the money

 

- How close is the Innocenti Cooper to a mini Cooper S?

What are the differences performance wise?

Seems from an investment point of view these cars should hold -if not increase in value?

But only if in original condition

cheers

Ben

 

You need to be talking about the Innocenti Mini-Cooper 1300, not just an Innocenti Mini-Cooper. Ideally it should be an 'Export' as they were the best in terms of specification.

The Mini-Cooper 1300 Export has the same engine specification as the early Cooper 'S' 1275. The Export has the non-'S' block because when they were produced there were no more 'S' blocks or 'S' gearbox cases. However, the final drive ratio is also the same as an 'S' at 3.44:1. The carbs and exhaust manifold are identical as is the distributor. The camshaft is the Italian version of the original BMC 510. Therefore the overall performance is identical the a 1275 Cooper 'S'.

My firm belief is that the Inno 1300 Export is undervalued compared to the Mk. 3 Cooper 'S' as it is better equipped for the same performance. In original condition it is around half the asking price for a 'mint & original Cooper 'S' Mk.3 and is a better car from a collector's point of view.

Beware because a lot have been modified out of period and originality is key. I know how hard I looked to find genuine parts to make mine mint and original, which I achieved eventually. Foster Charlton of the Mini Cooper Register is Innocenti Registrar and often knows where to find parts. I actually found an original Innocenti rear sub-frame in top condition and he bought it from me. It was marked 'Firsat' which is how a lot of Inno parts are marked. The radiator should be marked 'IRPRO' to be original and the top of the rad looks different.

I used Wipac halogen lights to make it dip to the left, but the original Carello headlights are available as they are the same as the Fiat 127, but they dip the wrong way so are not suitable for a UK car. The indicators originally had dual filament white bulbs for side and indicator lights. I obtained some clear covers and used an amber bulb for the indicators and used the built-in Wipac side-lights in the headlights.

Brakes are the 7.5" Cooper 'S' discs with rear drums with the built-in spacers for 4.5" 'S'-offset Firsat wheels (see my photographs).

Don't buy a RH drive one unless you are prepared to change it to LH drive by getting a new rack, moving the pedal box over and fitting all new brake pipes. It's a lot of work and for value it must be LH drive.

 

I know this is quite a lot of info and I hope nit helps you. As I said, if you want a heap of photos of my strip & re-build, just PM me.

 

Good luck with the search.

[CaptBen]

Thanks Cooperman - I am kinda new to this, but I was looking at the Innocenti Cooper 1300 

I have not seen any 'Export' models advertised down here (S France) - would be interested how much less spec. the standard Cooper 1300 would be compared to the Export.

I would have the 's' block and gearbox would have made it a better buy than the Export?

It seems hard to find any coopers with standard seats - most seem to have more modern bucket seats, which are probably great for driving with, but nice to have the originals stacked away somewhere

I am looking for a LHD and will keep it that way for use here.

Seems the Innocenti Cooper 1300 is under rated and perhaps under valued?

- For spares I am lucky as I am close to the italian border and so imagine there should be a good source of spares, once I can get hold of the right sources.

 

For the car I looked at - the owner said the 11 stud engine had the studs removed as it used a different maybe lead free head? - not sure if this sounds viable? or what? Rest of the car seemed reasonably original from my uneducated view, not immaculate, but it is 41yrs old!