14 replies to this topic

[spiguy]

Hi folks,

 

OK, so I have a 92 SPi Jap re-import cooper. Tha car is all registered, MOT'd etc and has been in the country and on the road for over a year (I just bought it a couple of months ago).

 

The car has the original as fitted, KM/h speedo. Now it doesn't bother me, it is easy enough to do a quick calc in your head (roughly 30 = 50KM/h, 40 = 64 KM/h, 50 = 80KM/h etc). However, two things bother me about this. One is legallity - I think it will pass the MOT OK, it already has twice and I think it's a non issue in the UK as the speedo isn't tested - don't know about if I got pulled over though...

 

The other issue is that I am insured on a 5000 mile per year limited policy. So far, the MOT garage has just noted the reading on the odometer which is of course km. Therefore if between MOT's I did 5000 miles, this will look like over 8000 as it is indicating KM.

 

So looking for opinions - is it legal? Could I just explain to the insurance that it is a KM/h clock if required? If I decide to change the clock, is it just the clock I need to change (ie is the speedo drive the same) ?  I had a quick look at pictures of MPH clocks for this era of car and the numbers look to be in the corresponding locations compared to mine?

 

I want to keep the correct appearance of clocks too, so I would need to find the correct clock somewhere like ebay. Also I take it I would need to wind the mileage to the correct value ? 

 

So many questions!  help!

Edited by carlukemini, 18 November 2014 - 06:57 PM.

[Cooperman]

I had a LHD Porsche for 17 years and the speedo was in Km. It was never a problem and I was on limited mileage. I just converted it in my head when I needed to know how many miles I had done in the year.

[spiguy]

Yeah, as I say it doesn't bother me at all, just that I have seen some 'construction and use' stuff that seems to suggest it is illegal in the UK, and also I wondered whether - in the event of a crash - the insurance peeps might take a look at the MOT history and suggest that I had exceeded the mileage limit. It's RH classic insurance, and they seem to be fairly sensible - maybe I should just phone them and explain that the MOT history will show a record of KM not miles?

[Cooperman]

They will know it's in Km and can do the sums themselves if so minded.

Don't worry about C & U stuff. I was once stopped in a Datsun 240Z on a road section of the RAC Rally. It was a UK registered car, but was LHD and the speedo was in Km. The cop told me I was doing just over 80. I asked him what that was in KPH as my car was all in 'foreign'. He said he didn't know, but I was doing 82, so to work it out myself, then he wished us good luck and went. No mention of the speedo needing to be in MPH. On my 911 I put little red stickers at 30, 50, 70, 90 and 110 mph on the speedo face.

Really don't worry about it.

[spiguy]

They will know it's in Km and can do the sums themselves if so minded.

Do you mean the insurance peeps will know this?  They don't currently know the car has km/h clocks.

 

I am inclined to agree with you and just not bother about it, the cost of mph cooper clocks is very high - about £100 either for second hand set of triple clocks, or similar for a new single speedo from minispares!

[Cooperman]

It really is not worth worrying about or spending money on. I've driven loads of imported cars with KPH speedos.

Don't worry about the insurance company either. If the car was damaged and they said it had done too many miles during the year, you just point out that it's a KM distance reading. They will do the calcs.

[nicklouse]

to be legal your car needs to have MPH showing.

 

and just sticking on tape with numbers does not count.

 

it should not have passed its first MOT. and it should not be still passing them.

 

 

the fact it has slide through means nothing. get pulled for a VOSA/DVLA check and they could make things fun for you.

 

yes I had to change the speedo from KMH to Miles to get through the MOT. it also states it in the info for importing cars to the UK available from VOSA.

[Cooperman]

This is what an MoT site says:

 

6.7 Speedometer

Information Method of Inspection Reason for Rejection

 

This inspection applies to all vehicles first used on or after 01 October 1937.

If the dial glass is cracked, it is not a Reason for Rejection, providing:
• there is no possibility of misreading the speedometer or
• there is no possibility fouling of the indicator needle or
• the cracked glass does not create a safety hazard.

A Tachograph is an acceptable alternative to a speedometer providing it satisfies the requirements of this inspection.

1. Check that a speedometer is fitted.

2. Check the condition of the speedometer.

3. Check that the speedometer can be illuminated.

1. Speedometer not fitted.

2. Speedometer incomplete, clearly inoperative or the dial glass broken or missing.

3. The speedometer cannot be illuminated.

 

 

It says nothing about what speed scale is required.

 

As I have said, I've been using cars with KPH speedos at various times for over 45 years and have never had any issues with them or with the Old Bill. It really is not a problem, unless one wants to make it one.

 

Every Innocenti Mini has a KPH speedo and so far as I know there is no MPH replacement which would allow one to keep the necessary originality. I know my Inno had only KPH and it passed its MoT twice.

 

So far as the Old Bill getting interested, they are far more likely to take a close look at excessively lowered cars, possibly with noisy exhausts, tyres projecting from the wheel arches, unsafe parts visible, than they are to want to see the graduations on the speedo of a car which has a valid MoT and insurance. Anyway, it would only be a very minor breach of C & U regs.

Edited by Cooperman, 19 November 2014 - 05:37 PM.

[pdaykin]

I looked at this a while ago when going through my Mx5 phase.

The IVA does require the speedo to be capable of reading in mph - section 17. Many Jap cars fail this as unlike European cars they don't show both mph and kph on the speedo.

However, I don't think the IVA applies to imports over ten years old even for cars from outside of the EC - Annex 5

On that basis, assuming you can prove an import date, you should be ok as is - but I'm no expert and would always be a bit unnerved as I'm sure there must be other "tests" which are applicable to slightly older cars.

Could you get a sticker kit to go on the speedo ?

[nicklouse]

Some reading for you.

http://www.legislati...made?view=plain

MOT and legal requirements are not always the same.

But as we know the UK is strange in that there are no documents stating who the owner of the car is. Just the registered keeper.

[FlyingScot]

Craig
Mine was imported in 1996 and has passed the MOTs ever since without problem. Bought it the same place as you...
I am insured with AF and notified them it was an import and that it records in km, they confirmed my limited mileage was a miles equivalent; no issue.
IVA does not apply https://www.gov.uk/g...-iva-scheme.pdf
See 1.9
1.9 When does IVA not apply?
Agricultural or forestry tractors, their trailers and interchangeable towed machinery, together with their systems, components and separate technical units and trailers designed and constructed specifically to be towed by them.
Quadricycles.
Tracked vehicles.
Incomplete vehicles (except until October 29th 2014 in respect of an incomplete Heavy Goods Vehicle)
Old vehicles (i.e. passenger cars and light goods vehicles over 10 years old and large goods
vehicles over 25 years old).

FS

Edited by FlyingScot, 19 November 2014 - 09:48 PM.

[spiguy]

Thanks FS. I had already seen that the IVA or whatever it is called now did not apply due to being over 10 years old, so was only really concerned about the insurance anyway. My understanding is that the car is not really considered an 'import' anyway, since it was originally manufactured in the UK.

 

Do you think I need to specifically point out to the insurance that it was imported back from Japan? There is nothing to indicate that fact on the V5 data, and when I initially insured it with Direct Line there was no question to that effect or any issues arising from using the DVLA information on the online form, to get it insured? Jim had intimated to me that you just treat the car as you would any UK mini ?

[FlyingScot]

Carlukemini

I told them on the basis that insurance companies are slippery beggars.....and I wanted them to have all the facts.
My V5C says first imported on it so it's clear its an import model

FS

[spiguy]

interesting.My V5C has no mention at all of import date - there isn't even a section or line mentioning import, the date of first registration in the UK is the same as the date of first registration ?

[spiguy]

I can only assume that my car was originally registered in the UK prior to sending it to Japan in the first place. I found some information online relating to re-import of a vehicle to the UK, and the details of this seem to echo what has happened in the case of my car. Maybe the procedure changed between 92 and 96 ? ie maybe they used to register them here, then export them and then changed that so that they were not registered here prior to export? Dunno!

 

Maybe the car was bought as a UK car and exported to Japan, rather than being manufactured with the intention of sending to Japan. Certainly it didn't have any air conditioning.  In fact, I wonder if there is any chance the speedo is a MPH speedo with a KM/h face? I'll need to check the distance measuring on the odometer - see what it's measuring. Seems unlikely though.

Edited by carlukemini, 20 November 2014 - 10:04 AM.