18 replies to this topic

[Deev]

Sorry for starting a topic that's probably been covered dozens of times, but I've searched the forums for the answer to this and have seen some pretty conflicting information!

 

So I need to buy a new battery for my nearing-completion project RSP Cooper and I want to invest in something half decent. I've seen various recommendations suggesting the best way to go is to get a "306 Diesel" battery, but that doesn't really help as there are various different 306 Diesel models with different batteries! (I've been looking on the Eurocarparts website). I'm also aware that the polarity is important (i.e. which side of the battery the +ve and -ve terminals are on when fitted in the battery box) - but as I don't have the car in front of me (it's in the bodyshop still!) I'm not even sure which way is which (I'm thinking -ve on the "left" of the battery?).

 

I'm looking to get a decent Bosch battery (S3 or S4 - is a Bosch Silver S4 worth the extra in a Mini?) but none of the recommendations I've seen have given the battery size code - which I'm assuming is standard - e.g. 049, 159, etc...?

 

You can see why I'm a bit bamboozled!!

 

   

[RooBoonix]

This is something I want to look into aswell as the battery in my Mini doesn't fill the battery box and why not have the extra capacity??

[KernowCooper]

075 is the battery you refer to I have one in mine, it slots in the box with some room to spare

[mingy]

This is something I want to look into aswell as the battery in my Mini doesn't fill the battery box and why not have the extra capacity??

Why carry the extra weight, if you have spots,fogs, a huge sound system, 42" plasma tv, searchlights etc then fine. but the standard battery size is fine.

Technology can pack a lot into a small space nowadays and your battery box was designed for the batteries of the day, your standard alternator is going to struggle to charge a larger battery ie: more Ah = more charge = lost engine power. 

[miniman91]

the previous owner of my mini managed to shoehorn this battery into the battery box:

 

http://thebatterysho...b072-8778-p.asp

 

[Deev]

075 is the battery you refer to I have one in mine, it slots in the box with some room to spare

 

...yet when I put my car into the ECP website it suggests 049 and 159... Or are you referring to the 306 battery?

 

I must admit the 049 and 159 size seem more expensive than the larger batteries - I'm guessing the smaller sizes are less popular so more pricey.

 

Good point about the extra weight though - I hadn't even considered that! Derp...!

[KernowCooper]

 

This is something I want to look into aswell as the battery in my Mini doesn't fill the battery box and why not have the extra capacity??

Why carry the extra weight, if you have spots,fogs, a huge sound system, 42" plasma tv, searchlights etc then fine. but the standard battery size is fine.

Technology can pack a lot into a small space nowadays and your battery box was designed for the batteries of the day, your standard alternator is going to struggle to charge a larger battery ie: more Ah = more charge = lost engine power. 

 

Not quite right, the standard alternator wont struggle to charge the bigger battery anymore than the standard one, slightly longer but wont struggle, the bigger battery has more reserve thats all and those who park there cars outside and those of us with tuned engines will like the benefit of more capacity, and with the battery in the boot volt drop while cranking will be less so better starting

[Dan]

Bosch and Varta are the same batteries with different stickers on, but Varta ones are a lot cheaper. You need to ask for an 075 at the desk, it may not be written on the packaging because Bosch use their own size code, for some pointless reason.

[RooBoonix]

 

This is something I want to look into aswell as the battery in my Mini doesn't fill the battery box and why not have the extra capacity??

Why carry the extra weight, if you have spots,fogs, a huge sound system, 42" plasma tv, searchlights etc then fine. but the standard battery size is fine.
Technology can pack a lot into a small space nowadays and your battery box was designed for the batteries of the day, your standard alternator is going to struggle to charge a larger battery ie: more Ah = more charge = lost engine power. 
 

Not quite right, the standard alternator wont struggle to charge the bigger battery anymore than the standard one, slightly longer but wont struggle, the bigger battery has more reserve thats all and those who park there cars outside and those of us with tuned engines will like the benefit of more capacity, and with the battery in the boot volt drop while cranking will be less so better starting

This is my reason.. my car is parked on the drive under a cover and I often work on it whilst having the ignition on 1 click and the radio on. Hasn't struggled yet but I can see it being a possibility through winter when it's not being used as much.

I think there was an Exide battery available which is like the king but it was over £100 and it's a bit expensive for my liking

[firstforward]

Bosch and Varta are the same batteries with different stickers on, but Varta ones are a lot cheaper. You need to ask for an 075 at the desk, it may not be written on the packaging because Bosch use their own size code, for some pointless reason.

 

That is not entirely true, Varta do 3 types of battery on any given part number part number as "blue", "black", and "silver", silver being the highest spec. The higher spec Varta is all round better than any Bosch, an example here of an 075, http://batterymegast...CFQQcwwodw4sABw

[kezzkitkat]

I can vouch for the 075 battery never caused me any problems
I bought a lucas one
For 42 pound

[Dan]

That is not entirely true, Varta do 3 types of battery on any given part number part number as "blue", "black", and "silver", silver being the highest spec. The higher spec Varta is all round better than any Bosch, an example here of an 075,

They are made in the same factory by the same people. Bosch S4 is the same as Varta Black and Bosch S5 the same as Varta Blue, although they quote very slightly different figures from each other in the tables for exactly the same product in order to not be in direct competition. Then Varta have their Silver which Bosch don't match (although they have a lower grade in the S3), but they then both also do a higher grade of advanced glass mat type batteries but in a limited range of sizes. Be careful selecting a Varta Silver for a Mini, I understand they are not the same design as traditional lead acid batteries. I think they are sealed calcium batteries which may not work in a Mini as they require a higher charging voltage. They actually need a voltage which would be too high (14.8v) for a traditional sealed lead/antimony acid battery (maximum 14.7 v) and so any normal off the shelf alternator made to fit a Mini should be set too low to charge a calcium plate battery properly.

Edited by Dan, 22 October 2014 - 07:58 PM.

[firstforward]

The Calcium batteries are only in the commercial range not automotive cars, so any car Varta battery is OK for any car subject to size limitations. Where did you get the info on same factory? 

[Dan]

Varta no longer exists as an independent company but is wholly owned by the American Johnson Controls. They operate Varta out of Germany under a company called VB (Varta Bosch) Autobatterie GMBH which represents 80% of the Varta brand and 20% of Robert Bosch GMBH. The remaining part of Varta is associated with Yuasa making motorcycle and small appliance AGM batteries (for emergency lighting, CCTV and so on) in a similar re-badging exercise. I looked into this when I had one of each next to each other on the bench and noticed they are identical in construction.

Silver/calcium batteries are very common in newer cars and are not exclusively industrial, but the charging system must be setup for them. They are used because they work better under high loads from an inactive state, effectively giving higher CCA for the same size battery and saving some weight. I can only find Varta Silver listed as a Calcium battery by anyone. It's fine to use one with an alternator as long as you are getting a good 14.6 - 14.8 ish from the charging system. If it's down in the 13.8 -14.4 range as many will be then a calcium battery will not charge effectively and won't last long. A dynamo would be hopeless with one.

Edited by Dan, 24 October 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[firstforward]

This is Varta's Car battery line up, no calcium, http://www.varta-aut...ech-automotive/

 

This is Varta Commercial calcium range, http://www.varta-aut...rcial-vehicles/

 

Can you give me a link to Varta Calcuim?