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Oversills, What They Are And Why You Want To Avoid Them


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#151 1984mini25

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 04:12 PM

 Has anyone ever taken oversills off to find that the previous owner looks to have added a complete extra inner sill over the existing inner sill? Please see the photo below, ive taken the oversill off and i only have a very small gap between the outside edge of the doorstep and the "inner sill". Im not able to see underneath the door step or any jacking points/slinging points. Hope the photo below helps with understanding!

 

attachicon.gifoversills.jpg

 

Sorry for small pic, Ive tried to link to photobucket but it keeps saying I cant link to img files (that file extension is not supported on this website etc)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's not an inner sill, that looks to be someone has repaired/plated the out sill and then used a oversill to cover over the mess of patches. Its' quite common when chopping off old oversills to find them covering the rotter original sills and many patches. I've even worked on one mini were it had and oversill over the top of an existing over sill over the top of what was left of the original sill.



#152 Fixmyride

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 06:42 PM

Can any on tell me if these are the dreaded cover sills or are they propper sills badly fitted


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#153 nicklouse

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 06:44 PM

Oversills.

#154 sonikk4

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 07:40 PM

Yup oversills i'm afraid, time to remove and see what is lurking behind.



#155 Fixmyride

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 08:18 PM

Yeah was afraid of that. Am I right in guessing the raised bits should be where the vents would be, so when I put the new sills on I don't weld them bits up. This is the first mini Iv owned so please forgive me if I seam stupid

#156 jcab

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 08:14 PM

Oversills! Don’t fit them if you want your Mini to retain its originality, and you want to fetch more money when you come to sell it. However, whatever sills you fit, make sure you inject them with wax something like Dynax S 50. Apparently this stuff is used in steel cavities on oil rigs, so it should be good enough for your Mini.

 

In theory, an oversill should preserve the sills from corrosion better than the original vented sills. This is purely because an oversill will retain moisture longer than original vented sills. It’s a fact that when steel is repeatedly exposed to water, and then allowed to dry, this speeds up the corrosion. If steel is immersed in water, and not allowed to dry, then the corrosion is reduced by a considerable amount. I carried out a test quite some time ago using a couple off-cuts of seam trim from my Mini.

 

Before carrying out the test, both pieces of steel was first cleaned with brake cleaner to ensure both pieces had nothing to protect the steel. One piece was placed in a container, and immersed in approx ½” of water, and the other piece placed next to the container (not in water, but exposed to weather in August 2012).

 

rust-test-13thaug2012.jpg

 

The picture below is 24 hours later

 

rust-test-14thaug2012-24-hours-later.jpg

 

 

The picture below is 48 hours later

 

rust-test-15thaug2012-48-hours-later.jpg

 

The picture below is 48 DAYS later, I had to remove the piece of steel from the water (pictured on the right) to show the condition.

 

rust-test-30thsept2012-48-days-later.jpg

 

The picture below is exactly ONE YEAR later. I think you get the idea now.

 

rust-test-12th-aug-2013-one-year-after_z

 

So if an oversill retains moisture, it will probably last longer than a vented sill. Personally, I believe a lot of the corrosion discovered beneath an oversill was there before the sill was welded on, and not necessarily caused by the oversill it self, but there because someone wanted a quick fix and couldn’t be bothered to fix things properly.

 

I personally fitted oversills to my Mini, simply because I’m not particularly bothered about originality or resale value. Providing the sill is welded at the lower point approximately 5” down from the sill seam lip, then the original strength should be retained. I believe a non vented sill (oversill) adds strength to the structure because it has metal throughout the length of the sill, as opposed to the original sill with vents.

 

So, in my opinion, if you want to retain originality and or resale value, then fit the original vented sill. If you’re not bothered either way, then I don’t see a problem with oversills, providing you weld approx 5” down from the sill seam lip. If like me, you intend to use your Mini on stage rallies, and it’s strength you’re after, then fit the full 9” sill, and weld along the bottom as well as 5” down instead of cutting it off. Don’t forget to add a few drain holes at the bottom of the sill to allow condensation to drain, you don’t want to carry around unnecessary weight.

 

I guess, if vented sills were a good idea, then I would expect modern cars to have them, but they don’t.

 

Anyway, we are all entitled to have an opinion, so I thought I would add mine :-)

I have to agree with you here .its not just the fitting of over sills  which most get hung up about but if done properly would be acceptable, which means cutiing away all hidden rust beneath.in the first place ...but including a few drain holes. would pass your M.O.T.



#157 sonikk4

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 08:52 PM

No at the end of the day an oversill is a repair panel and does not form the correct structural cross section so making the side of the car weaker. If they were meant to be fitted instead of the short sills then why did not Rover, BL etc fit them as standard.

 

They were only ever meant to keep your car on the road as a temp measure, not a permanent fix.



#158 Richie83

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Posted 08 May 2016 - 04:08 PM

I've been to three local garages (all known for working on Mini's almost solely) and received a varied response to my asking for quotes to remove my oversills. The car is a superb condition with no real reason to remove them apart from me wanting to. The previous owner fitted oversills as a preference rather than covering stuff over - price is usuall the same but:

Garage 1: said he'd keep them on for the time being. Fix them later. Agreed proper sills are the way to go but the oversills fitted are done well

Garage 2: said the oversills were well done. Judging by the work and good inner sills, were probably put on because proper sills weren't available for pickups at the time (are they relatively new back to market). Suggested smoothing off the lower welds as would look better. I disagreed.

Garage 3: was shocked I wanted to take them off. He fits oversills because 'they keep water out'. He had his own mini there with oversills on and was fitting some to a customers car too! Again, I disagreed.

Am I mad to remove these oversills? I don't really think ill ever sell the car, so that's not a reason to do it (but couldn't hurt if I did want to sell?).

Edited by Richie83, 08 May 2016 - 04:09 PM.


#159 dyshipfakta

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 06:44 AM

If you got the spare cash and time get them off is my take on the subject. You can't tell if they have been done well load of nonsense and the 3rd guy is a nut

#160 LSC

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 07:55 AM

1) The car is a superb condition with no real reason to remove them apart from me wanting to.

2) The previous owner fitted oversills as a preference rather than covering stuff over 

3) I don't really think ill ever sell the car, so that's not a reason to do it (but couldn't hurt if I did want to sell?).

1,2) Oversills are always (95%) fitted to cover something and even if they werent hiding anything at the time the lack of airflow will rot the sills from the inside out

3) heavily affects the resale value of any mini and most will not touch them with a barge pole

look at the pictures in this thread!

also if you have sexy proper inner and outer sills at shows people marvel over them haha

 

infact im in the process of removing the oversills on my 69 traveller, done half already but ill take pictures of the otherside

looks mint but underneath its just rusty dust!

 

question is if you look on the inside of the floors nearest to the doors and around the crossmember can you see any welding?

http://www.minispare...ssic/MS27L.aspx

Thats the panel you're looking for & is pretty much an oversill for the inside O_O :lol:


Edited by LSC, 09 May 2016 - 07:57 AM.


#161 Richie83

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 06:04 PM


1) The car is a superb condition with no real reason to remove them apart from me wanting to.
2) The previous owner fitted oversills as a preference rather than covering stuff over 
3) I don't really think ill ever sell the car, so that's not a reason to do it (but couldn't hurt if I did want to sell?).

1,2) Oversills are always (95%) fitted to cover something and even if they werent hiding anything at the time the lack of airflow will rot the sills from the inside out
3) heavily affects the resale value of any mini and most will not touch them with a barge pole
look at the pictures in this thread!
also if you have sexy proper inner and outer sills at shows people marvel over them haha
 
infact im in the process of removing the oversills on my 69 traveller, done half already but ill take pictures of the otherside
looks mint but underneath its just rusty dust!
 
question is if you look on the inside of the floors nearest to the doors and around the crossmember can you see any welding?
http://www.minispare...ssic/MS27L.aspx
Thats the panel you're looking for & is pretty much an oversill for the inside O_O :lol:
I am definitely getting the outers replaced. From the inside all looks well - I'll take a good look tomorrow as that panel looks familiar.

#162 1984mini25

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Posted 09 May 2016 - 10:01 PM

I was at Himley Hall Sunday just gone buying panels, bit disappointed to be honest as the only trader selling panels were Midnight Classic Minis.  I was looking for new sills along with a few other panels, not because I have oversills fitted, but because the current sills witch were replaced 9 years ago are starting to go in a few areas. That and by the time I've patched them, then for a few years down the line need patching again I could just replace them and be done with it. Plus while they are off I can have a good poke at the inner sills while they are off.

 

But I was actively encouraged that oversills were the proper, easiest and fastest way of 'repairing' the sills and its the type they fit too all of their minis. Obviously I didn't buy the oversills and went for the proper ones instead. But I'm sure the bias towards the oversills had nothing to do with the fact the narrow non-gen sill show price were £17 (knocked them down to £15 each) and the oversills were £22 each.



#163 Cooperman

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Posted 07 June 2016 - 09:23 PM


1) The car is a superb condition with no real reason to remove them apart from me wanting to.
2) The previous owner fitted oversills as a preference rather than covering stuff over 
3) I don't really think ill ever sell the car, so that's not a reason to do it (but couldn't hurt if I did want to sell?).

1,2) Oversills are always (95%) fitted to cover something and even if they werent hiding anything at the time the lack of airflow will rot the sills from the inside out
3) heavily affects the resale value of any mini and most will not touch them with a barge pole
look at the pictures in this thread!
also if you have sexy proper inner and outer sills at shows people marvel over them haha
 
infact im in the process of removing the oversills on my 69 traveller, done half already but ill take pictures of the otherside
looks mint but underneath its just rusty dust!
 
question is if you look on the inside of the floors nearest to the doors and around the crossmember can you see any welding?
http://www.minispare...ssic/MS27L.aspx
Thats the panel you're looking for & is pretty much an oversill for the inside O_O :lol:
I am definitely getting the outers replaced. From the inside all looks well - I'll take a good look tomorrow as that panel looks familiar.


#164 Shaggy33

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 11:09 AM

I've got the chance to buy a 1275 gt which on the face of it is mint condition and the bottom of car has been painted the same as the main body, the car however has had over sills fitted. The seller gave me previous owners number and I phone him and told me he did full body respray and any repairs to metalwork undertaken,
I've told the seller I'm not happy that there are over sills fitted and as I don't know what is lurking under them I would want to pay at least £2-3k below asking price.
Am I absolutely off my rocker?! Of interest I can't see any major repairs to footwell or crossmember which makes me think the car is solid. Is there any other way I can check?

#165 Carlos W

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Posted 19 July 2016 - 11:22 AM

I've got the chance to buy a 1275 gt which on the face of it is mint condition and the bottom of car has been painted the same as the main body, the car however has had over sills fitted. The seller gave me previous owners number and I phone him and told me he did full body respray and any repairs to metalwork undertaken,
I've told the seller I'm not happy that there are over sills fitted and as I don't know what is lurking under them I would want to pay at least £2-3k below asking price.
Am I absolutely off my rocker?! Of interest I can't see any major repairs to footwell or crossmember which makes me think the car is solid. Is there any other way I can check?

 

Check inside the rear companion bins, or get a borescope






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