14 replies to this topic

[dklawson]

This is not my car.  I am helping a friend with the suspension on his '78 Mini 1000.

 

He wants to install new rubber cones and a set of Hi-Lows.  The method I used on my '64 when doing the same is not working.  We are unable to remove the top arm pivot pin from his car to allow removal of the top arm and fitting the new cone.

 

This is what we have done...

The old cone was compressed so we were able to remove the old trumpet.  The rubber cone is still trapped in the subframe tower but it is unloaded.  Therefore, the top arm is unloaded.

We removed the rear nut on the top arm's pivot pin.

We removed the two 1/4" bolts holding the diamond plate securing the top arm pivot pin to the subframe.

 

That's when things fell down.  The top arm will not move forward.  After levering and prying for a while we gave up and removed the big nut from the diamond plate so we could verify if the pivot pin could spin in the needle bearings.  It can.  So the pin is free to rotate but we cannot move it forward to extract it.  It won't move the tiniest bit.  Again... the pin is free on both ends and it will spin in the arm but we cannot pull it forward and out of the subframe to free the top arm.

 

We removed the Zerk fitting on the top arm and sprayed penetrating oil into the arm (multiple times) only to see a flood of rusty, dirty penetrating oil come out.  My gut feeling is that the pivot pin and needle bearings must be horribly rusty and/or the needle bearings have worn grooves into the pin preventing us from slipping it out.

 

Are there any suggestions for getting the pin out so we can free the arm?  Are we going to be forced to cut the arm to extract it and then replace it and the pin with new?  We have pushed, prodded, and pried every way we could think of.  All advice is welcome.   

[sonikk4]

A long drift and a decent sized hammer Doug will be the way forward here. In the event this will not shock release the pin then you may have to get more drastic on the arm which will more than likely destroy the arm. 

[Tamworthbay]

You can get a hacksaw blade in either side of the arm and cut through the pin. I will warn you that by the end you will hate minis, anyone who worked for BL, anyone who has heard of BL, in fact pretty much everyone full stop. The top arm should survive though.

[sonikk4]

You can get a hacksaw blade in either side of the arm and cut through the pin. I will warn you that by the end you will hate minis, anyone who worked for BL, anyone who has heard of BL, in fact pretty much everyone full stop. The top arm should survive though.

 

Hacksawing through that, i think i would rather cut the bloody thing off and buy a new top arm to be honest.

[Tamworthbay]

You can get a hacksaw blade in either side of the arm and cut through the pin. I will warn you that by the end you will hate minis, anyone who worked for BL, anyone who has heard of BL, in fact pretty much everyone full stop. The top arm should survive though.

 
Hacksawing through that, i think i would rather cut the bloody thing off and buy a new top arm to be honest.

wuss

[sonikk4]

 

 

You can get a hacksaw blade in either side of the arm and cut through the pin. I will warn you that by the end you will hate minis, anyone who worked for BL, anyone who has heard of BL, in fact pretty much everyone full stop. The top arm should survive though.

 
Hacksawing through that, i think i would rather cut the bloody thing off and buy a new top arm to be honest.

wuss

 

 

Nah, don't need the blistered fingers. Nothing wuss about that.

[Tamworthbay]

You can get a hacksaw blade in either side of the arm and cut through the pin. I will warn you that by the end you will hate minis, anyone who worked for BL, anyone who has heard of BL, in fact pretty much everyone full stop. The top arm should survive though.

 
Hacksawing through that, i think i would rather cut the bloody thing off and buy a new top arm to be honest.

wuss

 
Nah, don't need the blistered fingers. Nothing wuss about that.

that's what gaffer tape is for. It only takes about 10 minutes each side but it certainly isn't on my list of favourite jobs to do on a mini. One of those electric saws that's a bit like a horizontal jigsaw would do it easily though.

[dklawson]

Thanks to both of you... both for the serious suggestions and the comedy.  It did make me laugh.

 

I have been searching through old threads here and on other forums.  Most everyone says to do what we already tried and indeed... what we tried worked on my car several years ago... which is why I am so frustrated.  Neil, I'm not keen to drop the subframe so I am afraid a drift isn't going to do it this time.  PLUS, the pin can spin so it's not that it is seized by rust... something is preventing it from moving forward or backwards... like a deep groove that may have the needle rollers trapping the shaft.

 

My thought was that if desperation takes over and no other answer magically solves the problem... I would take my Sawzall (picture below) and cut through the middle of the top arm to sever the shaft without hitting the needle bearings.  That of course would require that my friend buy a new top arm, shaft, and needle bearings.  I am sure he would be thrilled.

 

So you think there is room for a hacksaw at each end of the arm?  Should I make a fixture to wedge the subframe opening a bit wider apart so I could get in there?

 

[Dr s]

If it's worn it'll only be in part way round. I'd rotate it 90 degrees and try again.

[661]

Same with mine. I put the rear pivot nut back on and used a crow bar to lever it against a wood block placed against the floor forcing the the pivot forwards through the seized roller bearings.

[bikewiz]

Doug if it's anything like the left hand side in my car the needle bearings were the problem, the upper shaft was so worn the bearings were jammed against the inner surface of the control arm. I levered it out with a big pry bar by turning the shaft on the opposite end with vice grips. It took forever but it finally got to a point where it moved out. I never could figure a way to whack at it with the sub still in the car.

[dklawson]

I anticipate that the pin will look like the one in Bikewiz' picture.  

 

The consensus from people both on this board and other places I have asked is that if levering fails to move the pin I should anticipate cutting.  I am mentally preparing for the process... but I am not looking forward to it !

 

Thanks all.

[Tamworthbay]

Thanks to both of you... both for the serious suggestions and the comedy.  It did make me laugh.
 
I have been searching through old threads here and on other forums.  Most everyone says to do what we already tried and indeed... what we tried worked on my car several years ago... which is why I am so frustrated.  Neil, I'm not keen to drop the subframe so I am afraid a drift isn't going to do it this time.  PLUS, the pin can spin so it's not that it is seized by rust... something is preventing it from moving forward or backwards... like a deep groove that may have the needle rollers trapping the shaft.
 
My thought was that if desperation takes over and no other answer magically solves the problem... I would take my Sawzall (picture below) and cut through the middle of the top arm to sever the shaft without hitting the needle bearings.  That of course would require that my friend buy a new top arm, shaft, and needle bearings.  I am sure he would be thrilled.
 
So you think there is room for a hacksaw at each end of the arm?  Should I make a fixture to wedge the subframe opening a bit wider apart so I could get in there?
 

that's the one! You will be through in no time.

[dklawson]

I received an email from my friend that he made an additional attempt to pry the pin out yesterday and it "just slid out" like I told him it was supposed to do.  Unless the other side is also badly stuck I won't be trying any of the suggestions to remove the pin.

 

I really want to see the condition of the removed pin and bearings.  Hopefully I will have details tomorrow.

[dklawson]

I worked with my friend this morning to remove the right front suspension bits.  Everything went perfectly.  Nothing stuck and we were done within an hour even though I had to improvise a couple of times.

 

My friend said that he and a neighbor got the left side arm in the right position and the stubborn pin we had been fighting just "slid right out".  I looked at the pin and what was left of the needle bearings.  I think flooding the inside of the arm with penetrating oil is what really made the difference.  The damage to the shaft looked like nothing more than the build up of rust, peening, and a few minor ridges.  The rollers were rusty and malformed and that appears to have allowed them to prevent the shaft from moving when it had ANY load on it.  It is a very lackluster conclusion to a problem that stumped us for the better part of a day.