292 replies to this topic

[Tamworthbay]

Just to balance this out a bit..
Why bother making a car go faster, handle better, corner faster etc.. When you can only drive at 70mph on the road anyway..

 
because there is nothing stopping you driving around a roundabout at 70 MPH

Would you not get charged with dangerous driving if you did?

only if you were driving dangerously. If you ever do advanced riding on a motorbike you will learn the principles of 'making progress safely'. If you are in a 60mph zone and come up to a roundabout where visibility and road conditions are such that you can make progress safely then you would be expected to cross the roundabout at 60mph. There are islands where dual carriageways meet motorways so technically the speed limit on them is 70mph I believe.

Cool! I never knew that.
 
Mind you, if i ever tried to cross a roundabout doing 60 in my car, i would probably crash and die...
 
Only ever ridden one motorbike (well a 50cc moped) and i fell off. oops   

I have never exceeded 70mph on any of my bikes, there is a useful feature on the speedo - they have a 1 in front of the 70 so you know 70 is the one to do

[Cooperman]

Driving at 70, you couldn't even drive those stupid VW's at 20 mph in many cases.

A car is a piece of engineering design and manufacture optimised for normal road use. It can be improved for different specific uses such as motor-sport, towing, driving on rough roads, improving acceleration, etc., but the car is still a 'car' in the true sense of the word inasmuch as it drives and performs OK but is improved for the specific use for which it has been modified.

That is all well & good, but why on earth would anyone want to ruin the driving capability, make it totally unfit for the purpose of any sort of driving and think it somehow 'improved' the car.

Maybe it's me missing something here, but try as I might I can't see what it might be. Perhaps someone can explain how this improves the car.

[Tamworthbay]

Driving at 70, you couldn't even drive those stupid VW's at 20 mph in many cases.
A car is a piece of engineering design and manufacture optimised for normal road use. It can be improved for different specific uses such as motor-sport, towing, driving on rough roads, improving acceleration, etc., but the car is still a 'car' in the true sense of the word inasmuch as it drives and performs OK but is improved for the specific use for which it has been modified.
That is all well & good, but why on earth would anyone want to ruin the driving capability, make it totally unfit for the purpose of any sort of driving and think it somehow 'improved' the car.
Maybe it's me missing something here, but try as I might I can't see what it might be. Perhaps someone can explain how this improves the car.

c o z luks cool bruv, its da scene i n n i t

[Ben_O]

Like Clive said, It's all about showing off.

 

Like a competition to see how low you can go. I think tastefully lowered cars look ok as it can improve the look of the car but as long as it doesn't affect the ride otherwise i'm not interested.

 

My car is making a knocking noise at the front when going over bumpy roads which i can't seem to fix despite replacing most of the suspension and it drives me crazy! so a lowered car for me that scrapes arches and bottoms out on speedbumps is a definite no no for me

[M J W J]

Driving at 70, you couldn't even drive those stupid VW's at 20 mph in many cases.

A car is a piece of engineering design and manufacture optimised for normal road use. It can be improved for different specific uses such as motor-sport, towing, driving on rough roads, improving acceleration, etc., but the car is still a 'car' in the true sense of the word inasmuch as it drives and performs OK but is improved for the specific use for which it has been modified.

That is all well & good, but why on earth would anyone want to ruin the driving capability, make it totally unfit for the purpose of any sort of driving and think it somehow 'improved' the car.

Maybe it's me missing something here, but try as I might I can't see what it might be. Perhaps someone can explain how this improves the car.

 

Its not just you. I think everyone who doesn't have a lowered VW is probably thinking the same.

 

I'm all up for improving and modifying a car. What I want from a car is to be able to manage more than 40mpg, for it to handle well so I can chuck it around a bit when I want but for it to still be comfortable enough to cruise back and forth on the motorway and remain useable everyday. 

 

When I first started building my vauxhall conversion mini I wanted a road legal race car but a year of driving through rush hour traffic everyday and a older wiser head on my shoulders made me change my plans. I still want the additional power of the vauxhall engine and the 5 speed gearbox that comes with it but I have geared it to have as low rpm on the motorway as possible and it will have the heater and full interior all put back into it.

 

I also fully intent to use my vauxhall conversion as a daily drive just as much as any other car I may own at the time. Why leave it sitting in a garage? If I have to pay to insure and tax it I will use it.

[Burnard]

 

I kinda feel i need to weigh in here.

 

the 'slammed' scene was started by people who were looking for better performance, people then saw these lowered cars, and just copied it for the look alone. 

 

camber is good for handeling

low COG is good for handeling.

We know this, and you know it too. 

 

The issue is the idiots who JUST DO IT FOR THE LOOK.

 

The car above is mine. Yes, i do have stretched tyres on it. but those wheels were bought for the look. mostly because i was bored of the selection of wheels you normally see at mini shows.

 

However, the suspension is build to handle and i have spent a fair amount of time trying to perfect it. 

 

It is all standard style, ie rubber donuts, but it is all upgraded. and I think that now it handles better than any other mini i have ever driven. If anything the ride is now almost as smooth as a modern mini with its run flat tyres, yet still turns in and steers like a classic. something which you would not get from standard ride height and camber etc. 

 

As i say, i have done alot, all in the persuit of performance and i think i am winning at the moment at that. 

 

One thing i will also add. I go to alot of shows, people know that. I have never parked next to a mini which is lower than mine, and i still feel comfortable to hit speed bumps at the same speeds as standard mini's (depending on the bump). But ive built this car to be driven and to make me smile, not for other people. 

 

to sum up really, yes, 'stance' is stupid. but not all cars which appear stanced are pointless, I get it, but i would never go low just for the look.

 

I have a daily BMW 130i, which is lightly modified, but i havent lowered it. only tweeked the suspension and a change of tyres away from run flats in terms of handling upgrades and i do not intend to lower it ever.  

 

EDIT: i have just noticed that photo is 2 years old now, and the car is about 20mm lower now. 

Edited by Burnard, 14 August 2014 - 09:13 PM.

[Cooperman]

camber is good for handeling

low COG is good for handeling.

We know this, and you know it too. 

 

 

In fact this is not entirely correct.

Camber can be good for road-holding, but does not usually improve the handling. The amount of negative camber which improves road-holding is governed by many factors and in general, negative camber is best when applied to cars with a higher ride height and longer suspension travel as it keeps the tyre tread in best contact during hard cornering. With the ultra short travel of the suspension on a lowered car the amount of negative camber needed is less than a higher car.

A low C of G is always a good idea, but not at the expense of handling. By lowering the ride height an improvement due to lower C of G will only be apparent on a really smooth race track. Then the suspension can be set to have very high-rate springing and stiff damping which also improves turn-in and low body roll. It is the reduced body roll which a lower C of G confers on a car. However, all that is negated as soon as bumps are encountered, especially in a corner. Then the stiff low suspension prevents the suspension working correctly to keep the tyre tread firmly on the road, which is what suspension is for, and the car will 'patter' across the road with poor road-holding.

So it's not as simple as it sounds and road-holding and handling must never be confused, as so often happens.

[Burnard]

cooperman, all true, none of which contradicts what i have said though.

 

just because a car is low does not mean that it does not have a long suspension travel. due to the way in which i have built my car, along side lowering it, i have also tubbed the rear arches and cut away a lot of the front wheel arch and actually mounted the arch extensions higher up than a normal mini. this all together retains a total travel, from sitting to max compression is only about 10mm shorter than standard compared to how far i have actually lowered the car. 

 

my suspension is soft enough to deal with most of what the average british roads can throw at it and deals with it well enough now. I think now my biggest issue is the 10 inch wheels which just fall down potholes that more modern cars with bigger wheels would glide over.

 

The way i have kept my suspension soft without inducing body roll is to lower the COG of the car by moving things around and removing things, i have also fitted an antiroll bar.

 

Honestly cooperman, i know you know your stuff and have been doing it for a long time, but when it comes down to it, maths and figures are nothing compared to how a car feels and how the driver feels with the car, if you ever see me anywhere i will happily take you out for a drive just to show you how good it is.

[HarrysMini]

Handling is a very personal thing. Nobody can tell you what handles well and what doesn't, what feels brilliant to one person could feel atrocious to another.

 

I set my cars up to how I like them, not to how someone else likes. Hell, that's like saying we should all like the same colour toast!

 

If someone lowers their car and they feel it drives better, who are we to say it doesn't? When we've never even driven it?

 

 

*gets back to looking at coilovers for the R53*   

[scotty_1987]

If you'd asked me my opinion in say 2011/2012 I'd have agreed, mainly because a lot of my mates drove slammed dubs, but they've started moving away from them. Everything that can be done, has been basically!! Go get a proper German(BMW's) or go Jap, make noise whilst you're slammed haha...don't get me wrong I still love the "stanced" scene, but the VeeDubbers are all doing the same thing now!!

 

Nath

[megamini_jb]

Jap is the way forward! they're all so different and lots to look at, just loads better than vdubs - Low and slow copycat crap

Edited by megamini_jb, 15 August 2014 - 06:37 AM.

[Tamworthbay]

Jap is the way forward! they're all so different and lots to look at, just loads better than vdubs - Low and slow copycat crap

can't beat a good ricer! (Well apart from a mini) Japfest is on at Donington this Sunday, I will be going.

[Carlos W]

Slightly off topic, but my dad recently bought a Hyubusa, it had a power commander, it was dynojetted and had some ridiculous after market exhaust.

 

He put it back to standard and he says it's no slower, it's more economical and it rides far nicer. It came with the standard parts and he sold the aftermarket ones and got a very good price

 

Suzuki spent many millions of pounds designing the bike, why anyone thinks a few bolt on bits are going to improve it is anybodies guess. 

 

Apparently the aim is 200 bhp (the bike hadn't been remapped so the bolt on bits were never going to achieve this)

[Baldspeed Racing]

lowered vw's is all a part of the "scene" and its up to us if we want to drive around with our cars scrapping on the floor. I drive my Mk3 Wagon lowered daily and she drives really nice and doesnt cause me any issues.

 

its either a love or hate thing but its not like there arent any "low mini's" on here!!!

[Mini Manannán]

Just to balance this out a bit..

Why bother making a car go faster, handle better, corner faster etc.. When you can only drive at 70mph on the road anyway..
 

 

70 mph speed limit?  Not round here! (outside of the towns anyway)