13 replies to this topic

[Cooper1]

i dont like the idea of lowering a mini but yesterday i saw a mini that was lowered with a negative camber,it looked the nuts but ridiculous how low it was,so im fishing for views on a negative camber set up and asking what are the pros and cons

 

thanks

[rally1380]

Pro - the car will handle better

 

Con - too much will goose yer wheel bearings

[HarrysMini]

The right amount of negative camber can improve the handling (and roadholding) by reducing understeer. 

 

I've just got back from getting my mates Mini suspension setup with 2deg front and 1deg rear and it's superb.

 

Don't go crazy and put loads on though as you'll make it look ridiculous and handle worse than before. 

[racingbob]

The right amount of negative camber can improve the handling (and roadholding) by reducing understeer. 

 

I've just got back from getting my mates Mini suspension setup with 2deg front and 1deg rear and it's superb.

 

Don't go crazy and put loads on though as you'll make it look ridiculous and handle worse than before. 

I wouldn't personally put 2 deg on a road car

 

1 1/2 deg plenty enough don't forget tyre wear

[The Matt]

Yeah. -1.5° front and neutral to -0.5° rear is about right for a good road car. Look into adjustable bottom arms rather than fixed 1.5° ones and get them correctly setup (and get your caster angle done too) and it'll pay dividends. A little toe-in on the rear is just about handsome too.

[HarrysMini]

 

The right amount of negative camber can improve the handling (and roadholding) by reducing understeer. 

 

I've just got back from getting my mates Mini suspension setup with 2deg front and 1deg rear and it's superb.

 

Don't go crazy and put loads on though as you'll make it look ridiculous and handle worse than before. 

I wouldn't personally put 2 deg on a road car

 

1 1/2 deg plenty enough don't forget tyre wear

 

I never said it was a road car. I personally like the way a Mini handles with 2deg/1deg, but you do need to be careful with tyres. If it's a daily, I wouldn't go beyond 1.5deg front and 0.5deg rear 

 

His is a track car that is used for sunny days on the road. 

 

If you're going to the trouble of camber, I would get all fully adjustable suspension so you can really fine tune it to how you like. The whole package will completely transform your Mini. 

[Cooperman]

You absolutely MUST have slight toe-in on the rear wheels. The ideal is 1 mm to 2 mm toe-in.

[HarrysMini]

You absolutely MUST have slight toe-in on the rear wheels. The ideal is 1 mm to 2 mm toe-in.

What experience do you have with no toe-in (straight ahead), Peter? We tried it today but it made the rear end feel very unstable and would sometimes get a tiny bit of oversteer. 

[racingbob]

 

You absolutely MUST have slight toe-in on the rear wheels. The ideal is 1 mm to 2 mm toe-in.

What experience do you have with no toe-in (straight ahead), Peter? We tried it today but it made the rear end feel very unstable and would sometimes get a tiny bit of oversteer. 

 

my race mini had 1/16th toe in on rear, some ran parallel but can make it more twitchy

 

1/16th is ideal I feel it handling fantastic, the toe on the rear of my road mini is normal

 

haven't played with it but did put .5 deg camber on seems fine for road use

 

where you need this bit more toe out is where you are realy pushing it 10/10nths

 

stops the understeer, that's what I found

[Cooper1]

cheers i think ill get myself the camber set up and have a play 

[Cooper1]

is it an easy/diy job or do most recommend having it done in a shop? and any links for a well priced good set up?

[HarrysMini]

 

 

You absolutely MUST have slight toe-in on the rear wheels. The ideal is 1 mm to 2 mm toe-in.

What experience do you have with no toe-in (straight ahead), Peter? We tried it today but it made the rear end feel very unstable and would sometimes get a tiny bit of oversteer. 

 

my race mini had 1/16th toe in on rear, some ran parallel but can make it more twitchy

 

1/16th is ideal I feel it handling fantastic, the toe on the rear of my road mini is normal

 

haven't played with it but did put .5 deg camber on seems fine for road use

 

where you need this bit more toe out is where you are realy pushing it 10/10nths

 

stops the understeer, that's what I found

 

Yeah that's how it felt when parallel, twitchy. We set it to 1/16" toe-in today and it feels fantastic.

 

It's about finding that balance really, I think. Of course, everyone has a different opinion on what handles best, so the best thing you can do is play around with different settings and find what you like. 

 

OP, this is a good kit. http://www.minispare...px|Back to shop

 

I bought this kit, which includes some extra bits that'll give you even more versatility. http://www.minispare...px|Back to shop

 

Just noticed you're in Worthing, so not too far from Slark Race Engineering (near Salisbury). They set up suspension and will be able to do everything you require. 

Edited by HarrysMini, 29 July 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[Cooperman]

You absolutely MUST have slight toe-in on the rear wheels. The ideal is 1 mm to 2 mm toe-in.

I have driven competition cars with zero to slight toe-out on the rear and it promoted oversteer. On a racing car it enables the power to be applied strongly early in a corner. In fact you have to after braking late and the car going slightly sideways, as failure to get fully on the throttle early in a corner will almost inevitably result in a spin.

That is fine for the track, but decidedly dangerous on a public road. On a rally car, where it cannot be guaranteed that full throttle can be applied part way around a corner, especially on gravel, very slight toe-in is needed despite the need to be able to put the car sideways on a gravel track. My 'S' has 1 mm toe-in on the rear, 1/4 deg. neg camber, 1.5 neg camber on the front, 3.5 degs. caster on the front. The suspension is very slightly raised from standard and I have been told by others who have driven my car that it handles superbly on all surfaces and with different tyre types. Raising it increases the available suspension travel which means the dampers can be set slightly softer and thus keep the wheels on the ground for the maximum amount of time without the suspension hitting the bump stops.

My belief has always been that the rear suspension settings are the key to Mini road-holding and handling, especially handling (very different things of course, despite so many mixing them up). I always use fixed lower arms as adjustable ones are not necessarily homologated for competition and I don't think many drivers can tell the difference between 1 or 2 degrees negative side to side. We used to laugh about rallying where we would set our tyre pressures very accurately at the start of an event, and by the last 1/4 the pressures were all over the place, but the times on the tests were better than early on. Front camber is in the same league.

I once won a major Endurance Championship rally in my Rover 214Si. During the first half of the 320 mile route I bent a stub axle and one wheel had about 3 degrees negative camber compared with about 1 degree on the other side. I really didn't notice it at all when driving flat out on all sorts of roads.

[Cerberus]

is it an easy/diy job or do most recommend having it done in a shop? and any links for a well priced good set up?

 

Changing the lower arms isn't too difficult as long as the lower arm pin isn't stuck/seized, then it's just a case of cutting it off and fitting a new one anyway.

 

Setting it up can be done quite easily too if you've got a flat edge, a spirit level and a triangle protector angle measurer thing (it's something my dads had for ages and I have no idea what the actual name for it is).

 

I've got the minispares adjustable arms on mine, no problems.  Fitted fine and are easy to adjust.  Only thing is they're no longer black, gone all surface rusty, quick paint would sort it out though.  Also got the mini spares adjustable tie rods too, again, no problems fitting and again easy to adjust.