47 replies to this topic

[steah]

okay so the idea needs work, it doesnt necessarily have to be bang on to an F1 or any formula car for that matter, just look similar, it might never get to be road legal, if so i donnt mind, its safer for me to "hoon" about on a track than on the roads so thats cool with me.

 

the only reason i wanted the a series is cause its still good ol' carbs, i know there are a lot of drawbacks, but hey. its like those shoes or that shirt you wanted when you were younger, you wanted it cause you liked it, not cause it was better than others, it may have been less functional, but to you it was just awesome, its the same thing with me and the A series if you understand what i mean?

 

the reason i want to bother is cause im doing a diploma in motorsport at college, im a keen raccing driver, and dont feel like writing off the class project or my mini, so id rather have this as like a toy? plus its the expperience of buiilding it for me? like ie never had the money or the ability to be able to do this, and i feel like if i dont do it now ill never get round to doing itt? like when all our parents go "oh i wish i travelled the world when i was your age, i have no time or money to do it now". (awful keyboard on my lappy, keys stick so loads of repeats sorry)

 

all of this and the fact i want to build bespoke race cars in the future puts me in keen stead for this? so im gonna go for it haha,i appreciate your feedback though

[Mini-Mad-Craig]

It sounds awesome, I hope you do it. The dream and ambition is certainly there and that counts for a LOT.

 

Check out what they do in Formula student and you could look at moving on into Motorsport at Uni which is what my boyfriend does. It's a lot of maths and physics but the Formula Student side of it will be something cool when he starts to do that. 

 

You could apply the skills learned from that into this project, and vice versa.

Edited by Mini-Mad-Craig, 07 July 2014 - 10:52 PM.

[steah]

my thoughts exactly! ive been looking into formula student, its sort of a goal for me haha, could you ask your boyfriend if the class elects a driver or is it some pro? (im a really keen driver, i know load of people say that, but ive also been told im quite good, fastest lap time at our local indoor gokart track 3 years running, and i know simulators basically count for nothing, but it was a really high specced one; at ffestival of speed i held the fastest lap time round silverstone 3 days running) really wish i had the cash to get into proper driving :/ but ah well, gotta settle for what i can get haha, thank you very much mini-mad-craig, i bid you good luck with all your future endeavours

[Artful Dodger]

So your first problem. Planning the basic engine dynamics weight distribution and power

The a series engine is awful, basically. Not enough power and you need to spend thousands to get 100 horse. It's heavy!!! And just rubbish if it's not for a mini. You will struggle to find a box and bell housing to fit it and work properly and then the weight distribution will be so far out it will send you into the first wall you see. To make it handle and just be right you need a mid engine mount and a transaxle. ie a hewland box or a quaife (each in excess of 5K). So that's a problem for you to sort first

The engine id go for is a ford duratec. Basic units can be picked up cheap and standard they can go seasons upon seasons with little problems. Look into caterham for parts for a conversion they have engine looms, bell housings etc. to suit. A std R300 championship motor has 175hp, a solid engine and lasts 2 seasons of serious abuse before they spin bearings. So good treatment should see double that.



Honestly, you've bitten off more you can chew. I've been in your exact situation but I'm now 3 years down the line. I built the mini, went as crazy as I could afford and just showed off my skills in metal form. I now work for a caterham and historic Motorsport team, I mainly run maintain and build historics, ranging from our 600hp rs500 thunder saloon to a F5000 chevron that's just left us.

Go bonkers with the build mate, just tone it down and try to get something achievable done instead of a little bit of the unobtainable.

[Yams]

I respect you for wanting to use the A series engine, but there is much better bang for your buck when it comes down to the performance of other engines. Make this an attainable goal if you want to actually be fulfilled by this build.

I certainly hope that if you do use the A series engine you aren't racing. It would suck being in last place all the time!

 

Remember the wise words of Ricky Bobby.

[steah]

i understand where you are coming from, but im a stubborn git haha, iknow ill probably fail, but it doesnt stop me from trying and having fun while learning! and if i do succeed then woo! i have obtained the unobtainable!

 

if it does fail, i will have a high specced engine, and a crap tonne of carbon fibre to flog, so i will make quite a bit of money back, the fibre isnt worth much second hand, but if u have a whole shell made up you never know, some madman with similar ideas to me might buy it haha!

[Mini-Mad-Craig]

my thoughts exactly! ive been looking into formula student, its sort of a goal for me haha, could you ask your boyfriend if the class elects a driver or is it some pro? (im a really keen driver, i know load of people say that, but ive also been told im quite good, fastest lap time at our local indoor gokart track 3 years running, and i know simulators basically count for nothing, but it was a really high specced one; at ffestival of speed i held the fastest lap time round silverstone 3 days running) really wish i had the cash to get into proper driving :/ but ah well, gotta settle for what i can get haha, thank you very much mini-mad-craig, i bid you good luck with all your future endeavours

 

If it's your aim I would forget about the driving side of it since that's no reason to spend 12k a year on a University course since its highly likely that you won't get a chance to drive. Everbody wants to be the driver. I work at Buckmore Park down here and the drivers here start out in Bambino karts at an age when I was still rolling toy cars around the living room and making outrageous orange hotwheels ramps out of my bedroom window onto whowever may walk out of the door underneath. They're all kitted up with a grands worth of helmet, overalls, all the gear and a season with the a top team in their league, eventually ending up in Cadet karts and then moving in Junior Rotax, or whatever next. In super 1 they spend up to £100,000 in a season which is silly money for Karting, but these parents do it. 

 

One of my boyfriends mates at Uni does BUKC which to put into perspective, hes into his cars, has done many tracks days and loves karting, when he came to Buckmore in the Club 100 karts he was so far off the pace that it was laughable. It wasn't that he was slow, it's that there are so many drivers out there that have been doing it since they were 4 or 5 years old. 

Edited by Mini-Mad-Craig, 07 July 2014 - 11:06 PM.

[steah]

haha love the quote. but it wont be for racing, it wont go in any series really? but it's just fun to have, to quote MCM "id rather lose by a mile in something i built myself than win by a centimeter on something someone else built for me" (i think thats it) and its a cool thing to show girls haha, get em back to mine,, through the garage "oh yeah i own an F1 Car" (okay not strictly true but its pretty mental haha)

 

plus, hey, you gotta go through that boy racer phase, mine's just a bit madder haha

[steah]

not necessarily my aim, i was on about anything to do with F student, but yyeah, i know what you mean, i have never had the cash to do anything, so i guess illl have to make do, but its all goood! cheers :)

[Yams]

i understand where you are coming from, but im a stubborn git haha, iknow ill probably fail, but it doesnt stop me from trying and having fun while learning! and if i do succeed then woo! i have obtained the unobtainable!

 

I'd say if you want to have fun learning about old engines like the A series, and you want to go build a racey F1 style car then do it, but why combine the two?

 

Build a sweet fast road mini that will actually be road legal and a great laugh to drive, and also build this F1 hybrid car on the side and use a different engine. Dont get us wrong here, we admire your passion for this, and if you ever did this you would no doubt get support, but i feel you should maybe think about this more indepth. Total up the costs for the build then double it, maybe even tripple it, then you'll have your car.

 

Many people here start builds and never finish them, either because they lose funds, or even worse the drive to complete it.

[Mini-Mad-Craig]

+1 on this. Even when it's a car you've loved and driven since your passed your test, and then crashed, restored and put a lot of time and effort into, it can be very demoralising and at times you feel like giving up. This is the reason so many kit cars never get finished, the car doesn't mean anything sentimentally because you've never driven it, your wife has left you and gone off with John from accounts and you're left with a chassis which has some crude fiberglass moulds but lacks any kind of suspension or exhaust design and no funds to even consider starting that yet. 

Edited by Mini-Mad-Craig, 07 July 2014 - 11:26 PM.

[Artful Dodger]

^ I agree



Don't build a specced up a series for Christ sake unless it's for a mini. It's too expensive for what you get! I spent 6-7 grand on my
Clubman engine, should make around 120hp. How boring!

There is a fine line between being stubborn and plain daft. Look at what you have to achieve! Build a complete chassis with mounts and fixtures solid enough and able to take Load bearings of engines and wishbones, complete wishbones, uprights hubs and suspension systems, brakes and the braking system, a steering system, engine box and driveline, controls, wiring loom, body etc. it's just too much for someone who has never built a car before to do!! Believe me!! Been there done that I got the bleedin
Medals!

Rebuild a car, build a track car from something more sensible, that will be enough of a challenge for you I assure you

[steah]

like i said, at this point its only in the planning stages. so it might never come about. however, this will always be an ambition (perhaps not a series based due to all the comments haha) well, ill keep researching this week, can you guys PM me some other ideas, engine wise, car wise in dodgers case, cause i honestly have no clue what is out there, i have limited knowledge, hence the a series idea, cause well i have one haha. tthanks :)

[dprac1ng]

like i said, at this point its only in the planning stages. so it might never come about. however, this will always be an ambition (perhaps not a series based due to all the comments haha) well, ill keep researching this week, can you guys PM me some other ideas, engine wise, car wise in dodgers case, cause i honestly have no clue what is out there, i have limited knowledge, hence the a series idea, cause well i have one haha. tthanks :)

 

Mate, I admire your determination. I want to see more plans. However, if it's an A-series, which I think would be hilarious, you want as little drag as possible. You can have wings on it, but you would need to do a lot of reasearch on how to create a reasonable downforce wing with little to no drag.

 

I do believe this "car" would be more efficient engine wise than the actual Mini. you could actually have a radiator that faces forwards on it!

 

Also, you want it high enough off the ground so it can clear speedbumps - that would be embarrassing. "Hey, check out my Formula A-series Car!" Scrape. Rev. Damn.

 

So. You want a normal ground clearence car, with no drag but some downforce. I'm guessing the wheelbase would be similar to the original mini?

 

This one is a lot more sensible than my mad idea - get a Mini and put a V8 in the car with you. And you have the resources to complete it!

[Orange-Phantom]

Go down the motorbike engine route.  Probably an R1 engine would be ideal for this plus it has a sequential gearbox!  Put it this way a 2007 R1 produces 152.9BHP from a 1 litre engine!  If you want serious power a Hayabusa engine would be nuts!

 

Much simpler for what your trying to achieve, as many have said before the good olde A series is going to end up being more work and $ for less results.  I cringe to think on how much money has been spent on my engine in my Mini but it's a Mini and changing the engine to something else other than an A series in my opinion is like stripping part of it's soul out!  A-lot less money could have been spent for better results going down the motorbike engine route!

 

Just a thought don't forget the underbody profile for generating downforce.  A Formula 1 car used to generate most of it's downforce from the underbody, it still does but back in the early 80's Formula 1 cars didn't even run front wings because the underbody was generating soooo much downforce!  http://www.formula1-...und_effect.html