180 replies to this topic

[MontpellierVanMan]

General Muck Slinging ? Sorry, I've a Rogue's Gallery of stuff photographed and ready to post, some of it rubber, so I'd hope to be shortly "on message".

 

Like many people here, I've had stuff perish on the car whilst building it - CV joint boots from Somerford that split after just 500 km, having been sat in the dark either in the box or on the car for 3 years during other work ; or drop-stop rubbers under the front wishbones from Mini Sport that fell apart sideways after about 12 months on the car (admittedly under compression) before they had even done 10km ; or selector mechanism support bobbins from Somerford that turned to concrete after 3 years of storage and 500 km of use - I've refitted the old ones that are nearly 40 years old and have done 200.000 km ; or top bump stop cones that had threads that were so drunken I couldn't work out what thread they were meant to be, and ended up running any old die down them just to get an identifiable thread.

 

I never bother complaining because all you ever hear from these people is "nobody else has ever complained" ; I sent a pleasant, constructive, and conciliatory photo-reportage to Somerford once regarding all the problems I'd had, but they never bothered to reply, and on the one occasion they did acknowledge a query it was to say that whilst I'd bought the parts from them, they had actually got them from Mini Sport so I should take the issue up with them ............ which I did, and they did reimburse me.

 

Since I've spent my life in the trade I've got philosophical about this, but I feel really sorry for youngsters who don't have the money to waste, and don't have a 2-post lift, a lathe, a mill, decent MIG and gas-welding gear, a bead-blaster, and 40+ years of workshop practice behind them - sometimes when I buy crap I can at least use it as a basis to make something fit and/or work.

 

God knows what it must be like in a lock-up in winter with a Haynes manual and a Halfords tool-kit, my heart goes out to you.

[FlyingScot]

Any proof this is related to the topic in question.....?
Or just general muck slinging ?
FS

My post is about whether what is being generically complained about related to the title and the vendor quoted (I accept that there are poor quality rubber parts I was trying to be precise since a specific supplier is referenced in the thread title that's all)
Your example is from another supplier in this case

FS

[firstforward]

For the amount of hand wringing I'm seeing here about so called Chinese parts ( where's your proof) has anybody directly contacted the supplier to see where they are buying their parts from??

Also for those who feel they have found someone who could possibly supply a better quality part, again have you been in contact with the suppliers of the faulty items to suggest a possible alternative supplier??

Now I am not having a dig here but surely if you felt that strongly about it would you not try and start a dialogue with the people you buy your parts from??

As it happens I have talked to Simon@minispares about certain products and quality control. At the time he said they were looking into the quality of these parts to see what could be done.

 

Just a small bit of input. I accept that Minispares and all alike are up against a problem here. As it happens I contacted Simon at Minispares some 3-4 YEARS AGO!!! and it appears the problem still exists, so what has been done in all this time!

[sonikk4]

 

For the amount of hand wringing I'm seeing here about so called Chinese parts ( where's your proof) has anybody directly contacted the supplier to see where they are buying their parts from??

Also for those who feel they have found someone who could possibly supply a better quality part, again have you been in contact with the suppliers of the faulty items to suggest a possible alternative supplier??

Now I am not having a dig here but surely if you felt that strongly about it would you not try and start a dialogue with the people you buy your parts from??

As it happens I have talked to Simon@minispares about certain products and quality control. At the time he said they were looking into the quality of these parts to see what could be done.

 

Just a small bit of input. I accept that Minispares and all alike are up against a problem here. As it happens I contacted Simon at Minispares some 3-4 YEARS AGO!!! and it appears the problem still exists, so what has been done in all this time!

 

 

Personally i don't know but unless we ask him or chase him up we won't find out.

[MikeRotherham]

Bit surprised Simon hasn't chipped in on this thread it's been running a while now.

 

For the people that have contacted their suppliers and had no success, perhaps time to contact trading standards or their MP.

[mab01uk]

As I mentioned at the begining of this thread a similar discussion has been taking place on the Mk1 Forum (see link below)......I think a couple of comments below from people with direct experience of sourcing suppliers of rubber parts for classic Mini's show their is no easy answer.......

(except perhaps for someone to take the financial risk of investing in importing a batch of what appear to be more expensive but better quality rubber parts for Mini's like CV boots from Japan)

 

Mk1

"All these problems aren't necessarily down to Quality Control. I would suggest that it is more down to quantity. If a good OEM manufacturer to the motor industry making OEM CV boots receives an order from a major motor manufacturer it will be in the millions of units. These HAVE to be correct & in spec. However if the same company receives an order for a few thousand units it is simply not worth their while doing them. Therefore smaller orders have to be placed with smaller (less good) suppliers who are prepared to cut corners & maximise their profit.
Add to this peoples reluctance to pay a relatively large sum of money for what they consider to be a cheap gaiter & the circle is set.
This is NOT down to companies like Minispares it is down to pure economics."

 

Rich@Minispares

"the only problem with the supply of rubber parts is that its often 6-12 months before they show signs of distress, so its a long winded process
1) you either believe the word of the supplier (who may just be a middle man), order your 1000's of boots only to discover they are junk much later
or
2) you get a few samples made, use them for 6-12 months and asses them, by which time the supplier has sold the rubber material stock and you are back to 1)
we have a 'window sill' full of rubber bits and bobs that are getting hammered by the sun to see what happens to them, but its certainly not a problem that's going to be fixed anytime soon.
as has been said above, its all down to price per unit and volumes ordered"

 

"believe me, I rant at our purchasing guy like a good one (and far more than a normal customer would probably feel comfortable with!)
I regularly send him little bags of decaying rubber boots that I have removed off my fleet!
however, I have listed the problems we have finding stable rubber products previously, and whilst we know that there is an issue with it, its a very difficult problem to solve..
it IS something that we are chewing through, but as the decay takes time to appear (and can vary across a batch) its a slow process."

http://mk1-forum.net....php?f=5&t=9865

Edited by mab01uk, 16 August 2016 - 08:17 AM.

[DannyTip]

I just had a look and that comment from Rich@Minispares is from March 2015. It would be nice to get an update on the situation.

[1984mini25]

For the people that have contacted their suppliers and had no success...

 

I contacted mini-mine a while back about the knuckle joint rubbers that disintegrate within a few months.

 

All I got back was that they sell 100's of these parts without any issue, and the quality is reflected in the price.

[1984mini25]

As the quality and accountably of who manufactures or who they buy their rubber parts from seams non-existent from the majority of the mini specialists, I've done some digging around locally.

 

 

I've found First Line knuckle joints for £5.82 each and Delphi knuckle joints for £8.69 and £6.55 each. So witch out of FirstLine or Delphi would be the ones to go for?

[fikasteve]

Rubber parts made now will not be as hard wearing as they once were. New legislation has banned a chemical used in the manufacturing process in rubber, I can't remember off the top of my head what it was now. The upshot is that the new 'rubber ingredients' just aren't up to the job of making a product as robust.

I believe instead of trying to make exsisting products with this rehashed rubber formulae, other materials should be looked into.

Silicone cv boots for example?

[1984mini25]

Rubber parts made now will not be as hard wearing as they once were. New legislation has banned a chemical used in the manufacturing process in rubber, I can't remember off the top of my head what it was now. The upshot is that the new 'rubber ingredients' just aren't up to the job of making a product as robust.

I believe instead of trying to make existing products with this rehashed rubber formulae, other materials should be looked into.

Silicone cv boots for example?

 

 I don't doubt that what ingredients goes into making the rubber has changed, in much the same way like a lot of other stuff like paint for example. But then why isn't there the same issue with the rubbish quality of rubber parts rapidly  perishing and disintegrating affecting rubber components on brand new cars? It only seams to be the aftermarket supply of parts that the issue is affecting. Either that or I'm in for a hefty bill replacing all the rubber component on a 3 year old car very soon.

[Icey]

Rubber parts made now will not be as hard wearing as they once were. New legislation has banned a chemical used in the manufacturing process in rubber, I can't remember off the top of my head what it was now. The upshot is that the new 'rubber ingredients' just aren't up to the job of making a product as robust.

I believe instead of trying to make exsisting products with this rehashed rubber formulae, other materials should be looked into.

Silicone cv boots for example?

 

While I don't know enough about rubber manufacturing to refute that, what I do know is that on the new cars I've bought, the rubber components last for the full three years until they go back to the dealer (and I expect for many years thereafter). So if OEMs are adhering to the same rules, why can they make parts that last at least 3 times longer while covering many times the mileage in harsher environments than some of the Mini parts I've bought in the same period (which in some cases covered zero miles)?

 

Legislative changes can only partially explain this. Corners are being cut knowingly or otherwise and we, the consumer, are suffering the result.

[minimat]

Not mini related but seems to be a bit of a genral problem,about 3 years ago i replaced a cv boot on my girlfreinds polo made by AMK and bought  from my local factors where i always go and it is already looking cracked,a year later i replaced  the other side and bought one from the same place but was made by firstline and this still looks fine.

[Spider]

 

Rubber parts made now will not be as hard wearing as they once were. New legislation has banned a chemical used in the manufacturing process in rubber, I can't remember off the top of my head what it was now. The upshot is that the new 'rubber ingredients' just aren't up to the job of making a product as robust.

I believe instead of trying to make exsisting products with this rehashed rubber formulae, other materials should be looked into.

Silicone cv boots for example?

 

While I don't know enough about rubber manufacturing to refute that, what I do know is that on the new cars I've bought, the rubber components last for the full three years until they go back to the dealer (and I expect for many years thereafter). So if OEMs are adhering to the same rules, why can they make parts that last at least 3 times longer while covering many times the mileage in harsher environments than some of the Mini parts I've bought in the same period (which in some cases covered zero miles)?

 

Legislative changes can only partially explain this. Corners are being cut knowingly or otherwise and we, the consumer, are suffering the result.

 

 

Me too on the changes to the rubber, but as Icey has raised, other new car OEM fitted stuff seems to last OK.

 

I haven't bothered to track them down, but I do believe Silicon CV Boots are available. I don't know how they fare, but they sound like for these (and possible rack boots and other gaiters) they should be OK, but for suspension components and other rubbers, I don't think Silicon is the answer, but I don't know a lot about rubber compounds.

[tiger99]

Silicone rubber is not the correct material here and will likely tear or splitm