20 replies to this topic

[ADRay]

I've had my 1982 Mini 1000 for about a month. It has drum brakes all around, and they're pretty lousy. I had a new master cylinder put in, and it works a little better. my mechanic suggested doing a full shoe/wheel cylinder/ hardware job all the way around.

As a driver that never had a car with drums in the front, what should I expect after I repair the shoes? I'm I still going to think they are lousy, even when at they're best?

or should I just pull the trigger on a front disc conversion? (I want to do it someday anyway)

Thanks.

[Alex_B]

You have adjusted all the drums correctly? and what condition are all the shoes and drums in? 

[Cooperman]

Do not expect any aspect of Mini driving to match up to modern cars. The drum brakes were what existed in 1959 and pretty much all cars were like that.

A Mini is a true classic car with true classic car features.

Drum brakes are fine on a 998 Mini and will give you an idea of what we older drivers were accustomed to when we were young.

It's called 'retro feel' and it's just fun. Not fast, but fun  .

[carbon]

7 inch drum brakes are never going to stop the car on a sixpence, but are adequate for most driving...

 

Unless the brake shoe linings are contaminated or the cylinders rusty/sticking then changing out for new is not likely to make much of a difference. Most of the braking effort comes from the front brakes anyway, and as Alex points out you really need to adjust them up well to get the best out of them.

 

On the front brakes there are two adjusters per side (square ended). With wheel jacked up adjust these up so the wheel is stiff to turn, then back off very very slightly. Remember to do both adjusters on each side. If you're not sure how the adjusters work take off one of the front wheels and the brake drum, you can then see how the eccentric on end of adjuster moves the brake shoes in and out.

 

See if this gives any improvement.

[Stiggytoo]

I have drums all round, and for some strange reason I feel the need to keep them. You should be able to get a good pedal with drum brakes, and it is just about possible to lock your brakes if adjusted correctly. 

I would suggest replacing everything you can, adjust it up, take it for a drive, then adjust them again. You really need to adjust them as far as possible to get any appreciable braking ability.   

 

Before you buy any new parts, make sure the brakes are adjusted correctly. You may find that the adjusters have rounded off, so for the time being you could manage with mole grips, or weld nuts onto the adjusters. 

 

I now hate the word 'adjust.'

Edited by Stiggytoo, 20 June 2014 - 06:49 PM.

[ADRay]

Thanks everyone.

I haven't looked at them yet to see what is really going on, just going on my mechanic's advice and the way it feels. I always have to downshift and plan far ahead to make stops. And if I have to stop fast they lock up & squeal.

I know it would be more cost effective to keep the drums and fix them, but I don't want to put a couple of hundred into parts and find that it didn't help much.

Ultimately, I'm looking for something safer.

Edited by ADRay, 20 June 2014 - 07:19 PM.

[steerling]

I recently had to replace the wheel cylinders on the front axel as one of them had leaked fluid all through the drum. It was annoying having to buy a new set of brake shoes since the ones that were contaminated were still pretty fresh! I also decided to completely bleed and refill my brake system as the old fluid looked horrible. After some time re-adjusting the brakes, i have to say i was very happy! 

 

I've only been in the mini repair biz for the last 6 months  but i'd suggest setting a day aside to pull your drums apart, have a look around, give it all a clean before reassembling and adjusting. The adjusting can be very annoying and may involve several attempts, but the results speak for themselves. Even if you find the drums and shoes are clean and fresh, it'll be worthwhile having an understanding of how the system works. Also, check out the condition of your brake fluid, if it looks questionable, there's no harm in flushing it!

[Captain Mainwaring]

It should be more than "just about possible" to lock your wheels with drum brakes, and whilst I don't really like them, once the shoes are bedded in properly then they can stop the car very well.

No, it's not disks all round with servo/ABS, but they can work well enough. Personally if you have the inclination i'd fit a disk setup with servo.

 

If you fully rebuild what you have you'll notice a huge difference anyway - but understand you need time for new shoes to bed in.

[nz_seamless]

And if I have to stop fast they lock up & squeal.

If they squeal your shoes may be very worn and you are down to a metal on metal contact. It is very easy to check.

Crack the wheel nuts, just enough rotation to break rust and stick in the threads

Jack the car.

Take the nuts all the way off and remove the road wheel

There may be a large phillips head bolt you need to remove from the drum, it's often missing though

Try to remove the hub by pulling it towards you. If everything is worn and poorly adjusted then it will come off easily. If it comes a small way then sticks you will need to back off the square lug you see sticking out the back of the drum. There are two and you only need to rotate them 90 degrees. You will now be able to take the drum off the hub.

 

The shoes will be obvious to you now and when new carry about 7mm of friction material. I suspect yours aren't that thick.

Edited by nz_seamless, 21 June 2014 - 06:01 AM.

[Tamworthbay]

As the cost of a change to used but good 8.4 discs is pretty cheap I would do that personally. I have driven 998 and 1098s on drums and never have confidence in them. I have discs on my 998 with Mintex 1144 pads (thanks to Cooperman) combined with super sticky tyres and it stops on a sixpence. To me, the key point is confidence. Knowing that if your life depends on it they will work and work well, I have never felt that confident on drums.

[Ethel]

Drums have a greater friction area that's also further from the centre of rotation, if there's an issue it's that they can be too good. A less progressive feel, imbalance and fade are their downfall.

[surfblue]

You want to try early single leading shoe drum brakes 

I would really love to put 7.5 discs on but would take away from originality so I'll persevere, but they really are poor!

[Cooperman]

I used the single leading shoe brakes on a lot of serious rallies in my early days of rallying, say from 1961 to 1963. They had their limitations, but you sure learned how to look well ahead, anticipate what the road was going to do and how other drivers were likely to behave.  I think it made us better drivers.

[Shifty]

Drums are ok, they just take a bit of getting used to, some decent shoes and make sure the drums are ok.  Its also worth checking/replacing all the rubber hoses as well.  A change to braided can make a difference and give greater longevity.

 

My Riley Elf has drum brakes and about 68bhp, they work fine but I'm not that hard a driver!! 

[ADRay]

so after discussing the brakes with my wife this morning, she is behind the idea of getting the disc brakes, so I'll most likely be going that route. Safety is key, especially since my 3 year old likes to come along for rides with me.

Edited by ADRay, 22 June 2014 - 12:53 AM.