31 replies to this topic

[CooperMad93]

Just a question I've been thinking about many times over the years now but never actually researched into it maybe someone here will know: Does anybody still make the A-series engine? or are they just rebuilt professionally? also, if there is nobody that still makes the A-series engine, what would it take for them to be able to put it into production again? 

[Alex_B]

Nope, I suspect the patents and blueprints will be in the possession of BMW and I can't imagine the original machinery used to make the engine still exists. To put it back into production wouldn't be feasible really, a popular classic ford engine is being reproduced if I remember correctly and the head alone costs many thousands of pounds so I can't see the a-series coming back

[Tupers]

No one makes new A-series engines any more although there are still a fair few NOS units kicking around. There was talk of KAD or Mini Spares making new A-series engine blocks years ago but it hasn't happened yet. 

 

I have no doubt they will get reproduced eventually as we're quickly running out of fresh blocks for tuning. I'd imagine gearbox cases will get reproduced as well but neither will be cheap. 

[Dan]

All the actual equipment, tools and tooling, patterns and so on for engines and transmissions went to Nanjing in China when Rover Powertrain closed up I believe, as they bought the company. But as above the intellectual rights may well belong to BMW which would complicate things, although they were interested in Mini as a brand and not really as technology so probably not. Whether it still exists in China or has been scrapped is another matter entirely. If the patterns exist still then getting rough castings and forgings made up would be simple enough but that's only a tiny fraction of manufacturing an engine. Enormous amounts of antiquated gang machines, which when developed at Austin in the '50s were state of the art, would have to be brought back to life and made to work together again. I suppose a small batch process would be more efficient if the finishing could be done by CNC once the metal has been produced though. But these parts were never designed with CNC machines in mind so machining sequences may prove to be impossible on such a machine.

[Cooperman]

Mini Spares were talking about a new 1275 A-series block. However, although I've not costed it out myself, at a guess I reckon a new 1275 block would cost at least £5000 each in view of the limited market for them.

Let's discourage people from going bigger than 1330 cc in future.

[mab01uk]

Monty Watkins  (ex-Miniworld editor) told me at the Longbridge IMM 50 that he was involved in discussions at the time with BMW who had made great efforts to ensure that wherever possible all the unique tooling for the A-Series Mini engine and gearbox castings was not scrapped but preserved or put into storage for future use possibly by BMH (Heritage) who look after the classic Mini parts remanufacture and licensing for BMW. This was certainly the case for the body tooling although some large jigs and fixtures have since been photographed stored outside at BMH going rusty....... I believe the Rover 75 (and 25) production tooling was sent to China where it eventually became the Roewe 750 and MG7

http://www.autoexpre...16835/roewe-750

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MG_7

 

It got quite complicated at the end with two competing Chinese companies involved and Honda were also involved in reclaiming tooling and blueprints for the Rover 45 that was based on the Civic.

http://news.bbc.co.u...ess/4708739.stm

Edited by mab01uk, 11 June 2014 - 11:41 PM.

[Dan]

Mini Spares were talking about a new 1275 A-series block. However, although I've not costed it out myself, at a guess I reckon a new 1275 block would cost at least £5000 each in view of the limited market for them.
Let's discourage people from going bigger than 1330 cc in future.

In the last special tuning catalogues that were published in the late '90s they listed bare blocks for 998s at around £1000.00. These were leftover stock from when 998 production ended in '92 and had been made while production was in full flow, so I think even £5000.00 may be on the low side of the price range.

[[email protected]]

Mini Spares were talking about a new 1275 A-series block. However, although I've not costed it out myself, at a guess I reckon a new 1275 block would cost at least £5000 each in view of the limited market for them.
Let's discourage people from going bigger than 1330 cc in future.

In the last special tuning catalogues that were published in the late '90s they listed bare blocks for 998s at around £1000.00. These were leftover stock from when 998 production ended in '92 and had been made while production was in full flow, so I think even £5000.00 may be on the low side of the price range.

Watch this space.......

[coopdog]

Mini Spares were talking about a new 1275 A-series block. However, although I've not costed it out myself, at a guess I reckon a new 1275 block would cost at least £5000 each in view of the limited market for them.
Let's discourage people from going bigger than 1330 cc in future.

In the last special tuning catalogues that were published in the late '90s they listed bare blocks for 998s at around £1000.00. These were leftover stock from when 998 production ended in '92 and had been made while production was in full flow, so I think even £5000.00 may be on the low side of the price range.

Watch this space.......

I hate cliffhangers

[phil hill]

Swiftune are already making "new" 12G940 head castings, so not-withstanding IPR issues, anything is possible.

 

Phil.

[Ethel]

Any patents are likely to have lapsed by now, even for the MPI. The engine was also produced under licence by several companies, including Nissan. Don't know if there's any connection with the occasional rumours of aluminium A series blocks under development in Japan.

 

Question is what should an A++ engine be like?

 

Iron or Ally, linered bores.... would it even need homes for a dizzy & cam in the block?

[Dan]

These are the rumours I have heard too, from reliable sources that we all know.

[mab01uk]

Now if someone could find the tooling for this A-Series........

 

Pictures of BL's OHC A-Series engine for the Mini in 1975 which featured belt drive to the overhead camshaft, single or twin-SU carbrettors and retained all the familiar A-Series features, such as the starter motor, alternator, distributor and spark plugs on the same forward facing side of the original cylinder block. There were also inline versions developed for BL's rear wheel drive cars. 11 prototypes of all sizes were built and completed 3,200 hours on test beds and 2,200 vehicle miles.
The 1275cc OHC A-Series produced 84bhp @ 6750, torque 80lb/ft @ 4,500 (against 59bhp @ 5300, torque 69lb/ft @ 3000 for the pushrod engine) in standard form.
There were also 970cc and 1097cc versions produced and tested but the project was eventually canceled due to the mounting losses of British Leyland which had become nationalised during the engines development. Lots more info on what could have been in Graham Robson's interesting book.........."A-Series - The First 60 Years"

 

More here:

http://www.theminifo...and-9x-engines/

[dennismini93]

i looked into getting a new 1275 block made up and approached a company who offered to do it but said it would cost a few g's and so never looked further into it.

id like to see some-one re-make the OHC engine above or the alloy one though. they would be special. only see a photo of both though

[mab01uk]

An Experimental Alloy A Series, Made By BMC.

"In the late 1950's BMC realised that their "Workhorse" engine the A series could do with a bit of a face lift. To this end they commissioned The British Aluminium Co. to investigate the possibilities of making an all Alloy A Series. This project was overseen by George Harriman with input from other BMC worthies including Issigonis. By 1963 "BA" had produced a number of these blocks in varying configurations, with blocks actually running in at least 1 Riley Elf and the project looked like it was going to go somewhere."

More on Mk1 Performance here:

http://mk1-performan...mental_dept.htm