15 replies to this topic

[THE ANORAK]

A couple of recent topics have made me wonder...

Are wheel spacers good or bad??

let me explain, i used to have 5.5x12 ultralights on the cooper and they stuck out about 1 inch past the old Grp 2 arches.
i have now gone back to standard 4.5x12 alloys and standard arches and these are about half an inch inside the arches.



(yes, i know he looked better before but this is the starting point of a restoration that will see him go back to 95% standard spec. don't ask me why, i'm a bit of an anorak )

back to the point:

now i could add 1 inch spacers (i'm not going to) to bring back the wide look, but as we all know, this is considered to be a bad thing to do.

WHY IS THIS.

what is the difference between having the extra inch as part of the wheel or having it as a spacer.?
surely the extra strain on the wheel bearings would be the same??
i'm sure there is a good reason for not using spacers, but what is it???

also, i need to add some shims to the rear to give internal clearance for the yoko's.
at what size does a shim become a spacer ????

this may sound like a daft bunch of questions, but i thought it was about time we all got the facts
can anyone shed some light on this?

[gsms]

Spacers on the rear should be fine up to around 1 1/4", but there is a lot more strain on the front wheel bearings, so I'd say you could spacer the front wheels up to 1/2". However, spacering the rear more than the front will affect the handling, so you shouldn't do it too much.

If you spacer any wheels, make sure you use brand new longer studs rather than stud-extensions, as studs are prone to snapping so you should go for the strongest option available.

Minispares sell a kit containing 2 spacers, and 8 studs of the correct new length, which is what I'd reccommend for this.


Guy.

[pikey7]

bascially, the more you spacer the wheel, the further out it goes, and the leverage on the bearings increases, thus wearing them out much faster.

It also changes the king pin offset which can dramatically change the handling properties.

Ideally, if you get a wheel thats a different width, you're aiming to keep the centre of the wheel in the same place to not have any of the two effects as above. Of course though this means that by moving the wheel out an inch, you want to increase the wheel width by two inches to counter that.

Now what you're looking at doing is exactly the opposite. Spacing the wheel and reducing the width. Not a good combination......

[THE ANORAK]

aha, the 64 million dollar answer, thanks mate that makes sense.

Don't worry, i wasn't even thinking of spacing them out that much, but i will need some clearance shims.

it was just one of those things that most people never really know the answer too.

[Sprocket]

its not just the leverage on the bearings but it also acts on the studs. Remember the studs are only 3/8th inch and not the strongest to start.

[taffy1967]

Well the rears are slighly spacered on my Mini & it has the longer studs too as it was part of a handling kit I bought, so the 165 tyres with adjusta-rides would clear the rear radius-arms (mind you most people run theirs without the spacers and they don't have a problem anyway?).

But yes spacers on the front are well dodgy or so i've been told.

[TimS]

The front and rear of my car is spacered. 1" at the front on 4.5 x12's and iv had no problems after 3 years of driving , inc ragging round the Nurburgring

[THE ANORAK]

you see what i mean, there are always different opinions on this subject.

most people will say don't do it but those who have seem to have got away with it.

i will be needing the rear spacers, as my tyres are rubbing when i enter the gate at work (left turn and large bump at the same time) and if i'm playing on the roundabouts.

i know that Cooper Garages used to sell these in the handling pack, so i guess that means their giving them the all clear in their opinion.

however, 1inch spacers on the front does sound like pushing your luck, have you noticed any increase in wheel bearing wear??

[Sprocket]

Cooper garages NEVER sold 1 inch spacers

[THE ANORAK]

sorry mate, but if you read my post carefully you will see that i said Cooper garages sold spacers in the handling pack, not 1 inch spacers, i believe they were about 5 or 6mm.

sorry if i didn't make this clear. :'(

[Sprocket]

The correct term for those are ' Shims'

[THE ANORAK]

sorry, yes your right, i stand corrected but this goes back to one of my original questions

at what point does a shim become a spacer?

i know this may seem tedious, but im very big on getting the facts.

[Sprocket]

The term 'Shim' means a thin washer or slip of metal used to fill a gap between machine parts.

So 5mm is thin in relation to 9mm(3/8") or 25mm(1")

so you have a gap in your wheel arches you wish to fill, do you shim or space your wheels to fit?

Like I have said in another post many moons ago, when was the last time you saw a car other than a classic Mini with aftermarket wheels that has the wheels in line with or protruding from the outer edge of the arch. Saying this in relation to keep the 'Shimming' to a minimum

Shims good, Spacers bad. But then thats like some one saying that they do 90 on the motorway and never get caught, but does that mean its alright.

[THE ANORAK]

so you should use a shim only to give you clearance form your suspension parts, NOT to make your car look wide.
the smaller the shim, the better and after a thickness of about 6mm then your pushing your luck and you should really look for an alternative way around the problem.

does this seem like a fair way to sum up this topic ??

(and thanks every one for the input)

[pikey7]

I would tend to disagree about the "shims good, spacers bad" thing.

(first, I'm making an assumption here that the shim is a "thin" piece of metal used to move the wheel out in conjunction with longer studs, and a spacer is a thicker machined part which is fixed to the original hub with wheel nuts, and has then studs protruding from the "spacer" to affix the wheels. I hope we're talking about the same thing)

Going back to MS's original thought about leverage on the studs, a shim will increase the distance between the supporting mating surface (that between the wheel and spacer) and the base of the stud. This overhang produces a longer than "standard" leverage. Whereas with a spacer, the leverage on the stud is not increased at all due to the fact that the base of the stud and the mounting faces (two in this case, one from hub to spacer and one from spacer to wheel) are still in the "same" relationship. So although the wheel is further out, and the leverage on the bearing is increased, the stud leverage is not. The one drawback with this is that you are relying on the quality of spacer to reliably transfer the loads from wheel to hub. Personally in this case I never ever use anything other than TUV approved (and consequently expensive) spacers. That way at least you have some sort of security in the casting, materials and design.

Also, while you will always get a few say that they've never noticed any difference in wear/handling etc etc when using either spacers or shims, the effect is still there, it's just that they haven't noticed it yet. While they may have gotten 3 years of life out of a bearing, the chances are that using exactly the same car and circumstances that the bearings won't last 10 years? It comes down to what is an acceptable limit. If you don't mind changing bearings every 2 years, then it isn't actually a problem, just a side effect.

I do agree with one part of your summing up though. The part where you say only to add spacers or shims to clear suspension parts. If you really must get to the limit of your Fortec arches, then the ONLY secure way of doing it is to spend some money on some proper wheels that fit directly to the hub. Of course not everyone can afford to do that though. (which begs the question about spending cash on wide arches in the first place, but I'm not going there! )