61 replies to this topic

[mrducati]

Now this clutch-change has gotten me into all sorts of problems. I have a flywheelpuller from Minispares, but the end of it broke of inside the crankshaft and is stuck really hard inside the center hole of the crankshaft. This seems like an impossible problem to me, because there is not space to drill it out. I do not have tools to remove the engine, and frankly don't have time for it eighter. Any suggestions on how to get it of? Will I ruin the crank if I use heat? Will it be any help?  

Also I am wondering if it will have ruined the threads in the crank. What is the size of the threads of hte crankshaft? I don't have money, skills, time or tools to change the crankshaft if that is ruined.

 

Edit: it is of cause stuck inside the crankshaft not the flywheel.

Edited by mrducati, 08 February 2014 - 07:38 PM.

[mini13]

there should be a metal spacer that sits on the end of the crank so the bolt dosent go up the crank threads and ruin them.

[Jordie]

yup, the metal spacer should protect the crank from the bolt. If not used, your gunna have big problems.

[Dan]

Did you not have the thrust block in place? Do you mean the puller centre bolt has jammed in the crank and snapped? You may have damaged the crank. The thread is special, you can get taps from Mini specialists but not general suppliers. It's 5/8" x 16 Whitworth, some will try to sell you a UNF version which is broadly similar but not right. Standard 5/8" threads in both Whit and UNF are 18 tpi so it's a custom tap.

Edited by Dan, 08 February 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[tiger99]

This happened before on this forum, some time ago, and I suppose it will continue to happen, because the thrust block is invariably a loose part that gets lost. Too late to avoid problems in this instance, but when I lost mine, I just left the flywheel bolt in, but very loose, and screwed the tool against that. I prefer to do it that way anyway, because nothing goes flying if the flywheel lets go with considerable violence, as they sometimes do.

 

Sorry, but this is a very major problem, with little hope of any quick fix working. Heat is no use at all unless there is some way of gripping the remains of the bolt and pulling. Also, the engine can't be dismantled with the flywheel locked in place. The only quick fix is to find a replacement engine and gearbox, hire an engine crane for a day, and swap it, then take the damaged powerplant to an engineering workshop who may be able to stand the engine, timing cover removed, on its end face under a large drilling machine, and bore it out. I don't think that you can do anything for it, in the car. I have been in some difficult situations in the past (finding gearbox input shaft needle rollers in the oil, when I needed the van for a long trip in 2 days was one) where some bodging and departure from standard procedures sorted the problem, but this one I would not even begin to know how to tackle.

[Carlos W]

What makes this worse is the threads on the crank and bolt are likely to be very different, therefore the threads on the crank are likely to be damaged!

 

It would probably be easier to get a new crank, but that's an engine out job!

[tiger99]

Yes, an engine out job, which means flywheel off first, which means......

 

Gas axe or angle grinder, and new flywheel at least.

 

The engine can be changed without lifting the gearbox or disconnecting the drive shafts, by people who are desperate and don't have lifting tackle (been there a few times!), but that flywheel really does have to come off, somehow.

 

Sorry to be so depressing. It really does make me sad to hear of a problem like this.

[Carlos W]

You may be able to use another puller to remove the flywheel, but it's not going to help the situation massively

[A-Cell]

Difficult but you could try...Drill into the broken piece of puller bolt using a right angle attachment on he drill, then use an easy out to remove the broken piece.
Get another tool to remove the flywheel, using the tool correctly ie use the insert.
Then clean thread with the correct tap.

Otherwise it's engine out and proceed from there using some of the ideas above, good luck.

[mrducati]

My oh my! This was depressing reading!

Did you not have the thrust block in place? Do you mean the puller centre bolt has jammed in the crank and snapped? You may have damaged the crank. The thread is special, you can get taps from Mini specialists but not general suppliers. It's 5/8" x 16 Whitworth, some will try to sell you a UNF version which is broadly similar but not right. Standard 5/8" threads in both Whit and UNF are 18 tpi so it's a custom tap.

Yes, that is pretty much how it happened. It is not excactly the centre bolt itself that snapped, but the thick black washer thing that goes on the end of the centre bolt.

Now the tap is sillymoney for what it is, but I guess reasonable if it is a chance it will work.

This happened before on this forum, some time ago, and I suppose it will continue to happen, because the thrust block is invariably a loose part that gets lost. Too late to avoid problems in this instance, but when I lost mine, I just left the flywheel bolt in, but very loose, and screwed the tool against that. I prefer to do it that way anyway, because nothing goes flying if the flywheel lets go with considerable violence, as they sometimes do.

 

Sorry, but this is a very major problem, with little hope of any quick fix working. Heat is no use at all unless there is some way of gripping the remains of the bolt and pulling. Also, the engine can't be dismantled with the flywheel locked in place. The only quick fix is to find a replacement engine and gearbox, hire an engine crane for a day, and swap it, then take the damaged powerplant to an engineering workshop who may be able to stand the engine, timing cover removed, on its end face under a large drilling machine, and bore it out. I don't think that you can do anything for it, in the car. I have been in some difficult situations in the past (finding gearbox input shaft needle rollers in the oil, when I needed the van for a long trip in 2 days was one) where some bodging and departure from standard procedures sorted the problem, but this one I would not even begin to know how to tackle.

 

Now the flywheel did in fact come loose despite the tool breaking, but I understand the problem is still, well, major.

 

What makes this worse is the threads on the crank and bolt are likely to be very different, therefore the threads on the crank are likely to be damaged!

 

It would probably be easier to get a new crank, but that's an engine out job!

Since there is a thing that goes on the end of the shaft on the flywheeltool, at least there should be no new threadmarks.

 

 flywheelpuller.jpg   22.75K   9 downloads

[Carlos W]

Where is the bolt that has snapped?

Is it in the insert, and is the insert jammed in the flywheel tail?

Also, did you remove the washer?

[mrducati]

Difficult but you could try...Drill into the broken piece of puller bolt using a right angle attachment on he drill, then use an easy out to remove the broken piece.
Get another tool to remove the flywheel, using the tool correctly ie use the insert.
Then clean thread with the correct tap.

Otherwise it's engine out and proceed from there using some of the ideas above, good luck.

A glipse of optimism! Thank you for your idea! I am not too optimistic I must admit, but given the desperate situation,I think I will try it out.
 
 

Where is the bolt that has snapped?

Is it in the insert, and is the insert jammed in the flywheel tail?

Also, did you remove the washer?

Now I should have a picture of the damage,but the garage is some distance away, so I have made some scribbelings on this picture to try and illustrate what happened. What I have lined out in red has been broken out if the piece, so I am left with one fat black ring, and that circular piece is what is jammed in the crankshaft.  image.jpg   28.13K   6 downloads
Unfortunately I did remove the washer.

Edited by mrducati, 09 February 2014 - 12:37 AM.

[Dan]

I'm not sure what you mean has happened here now. Can you post a picture?

Ok, posting at the same time! Now I'm with you. That's really weird! You need to tell Mini Spares about this if it's one of the pullers they are now making, it's a strange failure and could cause a lot of trouble. It seems the thrust block is not to spec.

Since that part is not threaded it shouldn't actually be too seriously stuck. Is there enough sticking out to get a Mole wrench onto? Personally I would seriously just try to turn it out manually. It'll just be jammed and the thread damage should be limited to the first half turn.

Edited by Dan, 09 February 2014 - 12:38 AM.

[mrducati]

I'm not sure what you mean has happened here now. Can you post a picture?

Ok, posting at the same time! Now I'm with you. That's really weird! You need to tell Mini Spares about this if it's one of the pullers they are now making, it's a strange failure and could cause a lot of trouble. It seems the thrust block is not to spec.

Since that part is not threaded it shouldn't actually be too seriously stuck. Is there enough sticking out to get a Mole wrench onto? Personally I would seriously just try to turn it out manually. It'll just be jammed and the thread damage should be limited to the first half turn.

I agree this is a really weird failure! I could in fact hardly believe it, when I saw what had happened. I am very happy to read that the damage might be less severe than first assumed. VERY happy, in fact!! I can grip it with a mole grip, but not by much. I have tried it, but not successfully. Maybe it takes some morre swearing.

[Carlos W]

That isn't how I pictured it either!

The washer I mentioned is after the flywheel bolt and needs to be removed before attempting to use a flywheel puller!

If you can't get a grip on it drilling a hole with a right angled drill may not be a bad idea! You could also try some lubricant on the thread!

Good luck, be inventive and hopefully you can fix it in situ!