14 replies to this topic

[minilotus]

I have my 87 Advantage stripped to its bare bones and will soon be starting the cleaning and refurbishing process and would dearly like to keep it as original as possible. Just wondering if there is a guide on here as to what colour everything apart the shell is painted? I am going to powder coat a lot of things and I know that black is a good default colour but what about things like calipers, shocks etc also what about engine colours? Mine is gold (ish) and I'm fairly certain that it's the original engine.
Any advice to help me achieve originality would be very much appreciated.

Cheers Barry

[Craig89]

Hi Barry. If your engine is gold then the chances are it is a "gold seal" engine. These were engines that were rebuilt/replaced by Austin/rover under warranty I believe. So technically not the original engine or colour. Originally would have probably have been black or red. But someone who knows abit more will be able to inform you better

[tiger99]

1984 A+ engine block (I had one from new) was a yellow colour, sort of golden yellow perhaps, with bare ali transfer case and gearbox. Yours likely was similar. Rocker cover was green. My original 1962 (approx) A series was green, as was transfer case etc, but timing and tappet covers were black. Gold seal engine was indeed gold, I had one of these too. I am not sure about the 1972 model, my memory says that it may have been black.

 

Someone will doubtless be along to tell you the exact shade of yellow or green.

[Dan]

If you want it to be original then don't powder coat and paint loads of things. The factory painted or plated iron and steel simply because they corrode, and left everything else bare. The block and head are yellow but it's not a normal paint and it will not look original if you paint it with engine enamel. The rocker cover, timing chest, breathers and various brackets and plates etc are black and may be powder coated but I think it's probably just satin paint. Calipers are often yellow passivated, which is a gold coloured plating process, as are various other small valves and stuff. The brake master is also yellow but the clutch is a grey coloured plating. Dampers are different colours depending on what make was delivered to the factory that day (lots of parts had multiple supply lines) but are usually black. The transfer case, clutch cover and gear case are bare aluminium. Essentially the factory didn't want to waste time painting stuff that didn't need it.

[tiger99]

I agree with Dan, who has stimulated some more thoughts, so I would add that the yellow paint on the engine block and brake mater clylinder is particularly cheap and nasty stuff, which attracts dirt badly, and soon looks dreadful. Depending on how you interpret originality, it may be worth considering smoothing the surfaces and applying "proper" paint of the same colour. The clutch master is tin (or maybe terne) plated, which also degrades, and many people retain the looks, as far as possible, by applying some kind of clear laquer. Same for ali bits like the heater valve, thermostat housing, alternator ends, water pump etc, but some people use ali paint on the gearbox, while others just smooth and polish it to reduce dirt retention. You could take the view that a "perfect" original casting would be smooth. It is all personal choice.

 

I am guessing that the Austin and Morris factories were doing their own thing in the very early days, which could explain the green transfer case on my old van. The cast clutch release lever (coil  spring clutch, very pre-Verto) was also green. Thinking about it, the main gearbox casing may have been bare metal, and newer models definitely are.

 

You may need to think about brake pipes. Reputable suppliers will supply Cunifer, which polishes up nicely, not copper, which is unsafe. But, if you want the original appearance, you will need steel "bundy" pipe, still available, although you will need a flaring tool to make them up yourself, unless some supplier still stocks the originals. Bundy pipe ought to be lacquered to preserve its appearance.

 

You also have nuts and bolts to consider. They were almost all bare steel, with a dull black oiled finish, which of course rusts. Engine bolts would be covered by the yellow paint, but what to do with the others? Stainless is unsafe in most places (poor fatigue properties) and looks very non-original. Personally I would use zinc plated, and accept the slight non-originality.

 

[Dan]

The nuts and bolts and things on A+ engines aren't coated with the yellow paint, and the front plate and other parts are unpainted. The engine wasn't painted yellow after assembly, the thin matt paint was applied to the bare block before finish machining, I've seen many blocks with some inside. In fact I believe it may be applied to the inside of the mould prior to casting as a release agent. So only the castings themselves are painted but with all machined faces clean and bare.

[tiger99]

That is interesting, and I also observed some yellow paint inside on one engine. However on a Gold Seal replacement engine the bolts are all painted over. I know, I had two, the first being defective. I have vague memory of seeing a complete power unit with the gearbox and clutch housing also painted gold.

 

But some units from way back were definitely green all over, in Minis and, I think 1100s, and it would be interesting to know which. No doubt someone will know....

[pdaykin]

Early engines were painted after assembly - the starters, dynos, gearbox, etc were all engine colour.
Not sure when this changed. But pretty sure my 85 had painted head nuts which suggested painting happened after assembly of the block and head - the ancillary items (alternator, rocker cover, gear box etc ) were not covered in engine paint.

[tiger99]

Yes, and I now remember how my 1962 van had a green starter and dynamo, and the coil bracket, clamped round the dynamo in those days. The coil itself was bare metal. The dynamo failed, and of course the new one was black. Some more details, the radiator top bracket was black, while the thermostat housing below it was green. I believe that the engine had the radiator fitted, before the whole unit was fitted to the subframe, as there was no useful way of accessing some of the bolts otherwise, but the assembly must have been painted before the radiator was added. I am thinking that the inlet portion of the manifold was also green, although that would not make much sense. I always assumed that the manifold and carb were fitted after the subframe was in the vehicle, and they would surely not paint the exhaust manifold only to have it burn off the first time the engine was run?

 

The engine steady bracket and the pear-shaped plate behind were black, so presumably fitted with the engine and subframe in the car. I think the lower mounts were green, including the rubber.

 

It is amazing what detail can be remembered when you start to think deeply about it. I had to become intimately acquainted with many parts of that old van!

[midridge2]

this shows the engine assembley before fitting to the subframe before fitting, you can see some of the engine parts that are pre painted before assembly.

[tiger99]

Sadly the picture is not working right now. It must be interesting...

 

Edit: It is ok now.

Edited by tiger99, 23 January 2014 - 06:21 PM.

[tiger99]

Fascinating! A very early MK 1, with inside-out sills, glass washer bottle, and coil on the transmission case, where tapped holes remained for a long time. Note how during several operations the shell was sitting on the slinging shoes, widely misused by garages as jacking points nowadays.

 

Edit: This may have been before the water ingress problem was discovered, as there was no sign of foam being injected as far as I could see.

Edited by tiger99, 23 January 2014 - 06:37 PM.

[minilotus]

Well thanks guys, I guess that i have an original engine looking at the colour above but what do i do with it as like you say Dan it won't look original if painted with engine enamel? I gather by the debate that has ensued that through the years of mini production, it has been a matter different suppliers meant different finishes on various components. I do love originality but with such advances in paint and corrosion resistance technology it would be foolish to opt for a poor quality product to merely replicate the factory look. I will not be challenging the concourse judges and will hopefully only be doing the job once to the best of my abilities. Would anyone be interested if I started a project thread?

[Dan]

Yes that's the original stock yellow for an A+ small bore, and as can be seen the oil transfer pipe and core plugs and things are all bare. The dirt and grease will clean off of the surface quite well but this paint is so thin that the iron rusts through it and the rust staining won't clean. As for other things, Frost Auto Restoration have a variety of paints that simulate the colour of a lot of original plating colours and if applied well they are very convincing. These paints will protect the metal better than the thin plating and give the right look. Not sure what you can do about the yellow though, other than clean it.

[tiger99]

You could get some paint mixed to match the yellow. It doesn't have to be rated for extremely high temperature on the block. But whatever you do, it is bound to look better and last longer than that original stuff.