39 replies to this topic

[minimuk]

 

Steve,....just read your concern, your numbers in the beginning of this tread are the same as my 998, never had any problems for the last 15000 miles, oil is thicker when cold hence pressure will be higher to go around, when oil is hot, it will be thinner hence no need for hard work and pressure will drop to 50 or idle 25, I would get worried when drops under 20% on idle. So I am not so sure whether you should wreck yr brain on this one....

 

P.S. did you speak to Shifty about this??

Hi Minimuk, many thanks for taking the time to reply

 

My concern is not the pressure, I'm fine with that, it's the time it takes to show a reading on startup, even after the engine has been stopped for a matter of seconds.

 

Regards

 

Steve

 

just Pm'd you

[Stevie W]

Hi,

You mentioned a thread about air in the oil in your above posts...that was one of my answers on a thread about zero oil pressure.

The below is part of my answer.... hope it may be of some help to you. I took me ages to track down the below poblem!!


"I had this problem during initial spinning on the starter with the plugs out and after splitting the engine/box to check I had included the "O" ring I found I had problems with the oil pick-up pipe flanges where it bolts to the gearbox casing!
The flanges weren't very flat on both the pick-up pipe and the blanking plate.
I suspected the oil pump was drawing in air after removing the oil filter and finding it was full....but with very airiated oil (loads of tiny bubbles!)."

Cheers, Steve.

Edited by Stevie W, 01 September 2013 - 06:12 PM.

[bully]

its sounds like air to me, manual oil pressure gauges require a loop in the pipe as it comes out of the block.

[Sheikh Pip]

I hope you tried changing the oil filter before stripping the engine again, preferably for a genuine filter or a top quality filter such as Fram, TJ, Unipart, ect. As most filters have a non return valve fitted in them and this may well have been your problem?

[stevede]

Hi,You mentioned a thread about air in the oil in your above posts...that was one of my answers on a thread about zero oil pressure.The below is part of my answer.... hope it may be of some help to you. I took me ages to track down the below poblem!!"I had this problem during initial spinning on the starter with the plugs out and after splitting the engine/box to check I had included the "O" ring I found I had problems with the oil pick-up pipe flanges where it bolts to the gearbox casing!The flanges weren't very flat on both the pick-up pipe and the blanking plate.I suspected the oil pump was drawing in air after removing the oil filter and finding it was full....but with very airiated oil (loads of tiny bubbles!)."Cheers, Steve.

Hi and thanks for your reply.

I have the engine out again at the moment so this may be my next move to check the pipe.

Regards
Steve

[stevede]

its sounds like air to me, manual oil pressure gauges require a loop in the pipe as it comes out of the block.

Hi and thanks for your reply.

The gauge set up including pipe is the same as had run on the 998 for 3 years without issue. I haven't a loop but have never seen that solution. Will add it to my list

Regards

Steve

[stevede]

I hope you tried changing the oil filter before stripping the engine again, preferably for a genuine filter or a top quality filter such as Fram, TJ, Unipart, ect. As most filters have a non return valve fitted in them and this may well have been your problem?

Hi and thanks for your reply.

It had a brand new unipart filter initially and when I checked the pump put fresh oil and filter again.

Regards

Steve

[stevede]

Well the engine came out and was stripped.

 

I had picked up a bit of dirt somewhere along the line and the mains were scored a little. There was also shiny areas at the edge on a couple, this may be due to oil starvation???

 

I replaced the mains & big ends shells with new. Re cleaned everywhere. Took off the oil pickup and checked the gaskets etc. Stripped & cleaned the oil pump, (re primed on fitting) and bolted the whole thing back together.

 

Filled with oil & primed to the point where I had oil coming out of the pressure switch hole when turning by hand with a socket.

 

Fitted into the car. just the engine mounts and steady bar.

 

Spun over on starter for a good while, plugs out, battery on jump leads from my car running and exactly the same, no pressure showing.

 

Removed the gauge pipe and fitted a spare one, again nothing coming out.

 

At a total loss now as to where to go next.  

 

The only think I can think of is to change the pump for a standard one (currently has a minispares turbo one). But previously, it was giving good pressure when the engine was running.

 

Someone must have an idea I can look at?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Steve

Edited by stevede, 08 September 2013 - 11:13 AM.

[jaydee]

Sounds like the oil pick up in the 'box has a leak

Bleeding oil pipes, well there will always be air in the after you switch off engine for a couple of mins, thats not your problem!

[stevede]

Sounds like the oil pick up in the 'box has a leak

Bleeding oil pipes, well there will always be air in the after you switch off engine for a couple of mins, thats not your problem!

 

Hi Jaydee thanks for your reply

 

I removed the pipe and checked thoroughly. I couldn't see any damage or marks. The gaskets were replaced with new. The soldering where the gauze attaches would be under the oil level, so I wouldn't have thought any leaks there would be an issue.

 

Regards

 

Steve

[minimuk]

This might sound stupid, but the gasket used on the oil pump, did you use the right one and positioned rightly?

[KernowCooper]

While this was out did you take the opportunity to measure the crank and confirm the fitted shell are correct and the cranks in tolerance?

[stevede]

This might sound stupid, but the gasket used on the oil pump, did you use the right one and positioned rightly?

 

Hi Minimuk, thanks for your reply.

 

Yes the gasket was correct and in position as it should be. I trimmed it on the holes as per recommendation in the yellow book and Calver.

 

It's had the original gasket from the build, a genuine Rover replacement and the modified one from the second build so I think I have ruled out any potential gasket issue.

 

Regards

 

Steve 

[stevede]

While this was out did you take the opportunity to measure the crank and confirm the fitted shell are correct and the cranks in tolerance?

 

Hi Kernow Cooper, many thanks for your reply.

 

I didn't measure the crank whilst out. It wasn't in my thought process to be honest and I do not have the correct tools to do it. 

 

The crank was ground 10/10 and is stamped as such. The original bearings on the build were +10 as were the fresh ones I have just re-fitted.

 

I would have thought (?)  that if I had oversize clearances, then the oil pressure under running would be down and in my case, it is well within the recommended parameters.

 

Everything I have checked, and everyone I have spoken with thus far, suggests all is in order, but no one can pin point why I have this delay on pressure at start up.

 

Regards

 

Steve

[stevede]

Well, things have moved on a little since my post of despair yesterday lunchtime.

 

I was on the phone to my pal and we were discussing all options, theories etc. I trawled the web and found many differing opinions for many different types of engine. Leaks, fine mesh on pickups, pump, oil viscosity and more. I was going with the thick oil and fine mesh on the pickup, but that would have ruled out the same issue when hot. I thought about buying a new std pump, instead of the high capacity Turbo one I had selected. I reckoned I could do the swap in an hour.

 

If someone had said, strip the engine again and fit this, It'll cost you a few hundred quid and it's guaranteed to work, I would have done it!

 

The unit was in the car and with no real alternative direction to head, I connected everything up and decided to see what I got when running. Remember originally, the engine ran fine and gave acceptable pressure readings whilst running.

 

Apart from all the gaskets & new shells, the only change was the new ball bearing relief valve. I had tried this remember pre full strip down but only on the starter.

 

Engine fired immediately, 4 - 5 seconds and I was off the gauge at 100psi.

 

Switched off, removed the relief valve spring & ground some off. Back in and now at 90psi. Same process again with a little more from the spring removed.

 

Now here's where everything changes. Press start button, instant out on the light and 80psi at tick over. 

 

On / off a few times, leaving it to drain down and the light is going off straight away.

 

Packed up went to the pub, tried when came back a couple of hours later, spot on.

 

This morning, stood overnight, nice and cold. Less than 2 seconds. Took the plug from the coil pack, and I can get 75psi on the starter 

 

So am I jumping for joy? Well not really, (I am happy & relieved though), but I don't know what I have done to cure it.

 

Did the 100psi run dislodge or move something that was originally sticking? Could my issue have been the original relief valve bullet, which had some minor marks but was ruled out because the pressure was okay on run?

 

Did I solve the problem when I fitted the ball, but it needed the engine to run to prime properly?

 

I'm really glad it seems "fixed", but don't you just hate it when you don't know why?

 

Best get the rest of the bolts tightened now and the drive shafts back in. I need some miles before a RR session.

 

Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions. If my joy is short lived, I may be back.

 

Regards

 

Steve