54 replies to this topic

[keefr22]

Just been reading this on MSN news;

"What kinds of careless driving offences will be punished by the new Fixed Penalty Notices?

These are examples of careless driving offences given to MSN Cars by the Department for Transport that would be punishable under the new Fixed Penalty Notice scheme; they're described as "low level" careless driving:

-Wheel spins

-Hand brake turns"

 

So, that means a FPN, £100 & three points. They're going to make a killing at the first control & first hairpin on the next road rally then....!!

And as the Road Traffic Act now applies to private land I expect they'll try it on at the next autotest as well....!! (although I believe there is some kind of exemption for MSA permit events on public land?)

 

Oh, & they add this in too;

 

-Inappropriate speed

 

- so that will probably give Carte Blanche to any Traffic Copper who thinks 60 down a NSL lane in rain, fog or snow is 'inappropriate'!

 

Watch your step on your next event...!!

 

Keith

 

[Tamworthbay]

My mum is in trouble then! She has never been much good at clutch control and always spins her wheels of her Micra when sneaking out of a junction quick. She is 78 this year.

[keefr22]

My mum is in trouble then! She has never been much good at clutch control and always spins her wheels of her Micra when sneaking out of a junction quick. She is 78 this year.

 

You'd best tell her to stop those handbrake turns into the Tesco parking spaces too....!! 

[Tamworthbay]

My mum is in trouble then! She has never been much good at clutch control and always spins her wheels of her Micra when sneaking out of a junction quick. She is 78 this year.

 
You'd best tell her to stop those handbrake turns into the Tesco parking spaces too....!!

She's not too hot on spotting red lights either if truth be known, still she gets her bus pass free if the worst happens......

[miniyellowmini]

Hope the councils are going to make a good job of clearing any snow and ice off the roads this year then, if wheel spinning is going to result in fixed penalties

[Dan]

  The aspects of driving covered by todays changes have ALWAYS been illegal.  Secondly the RTA is an act of parliament, it applies to the whole country.  Private land or not, if it looks like a road (legally defined just as being a route that goes somewhere that can be accessed by traffic or pedestrians, this includes car parks usually as your destination is the parking space or shop) and so long as the land owner has not granted their own rules to you then the act applies in full.  All that has happened is to allow fixed penalties to be used for things that previously meant a court appearance.  When there is a road rally on, just as when we are filming stunts on a road, there is a Traffic Management Order (court order) in place on the road.  This puts responsibility in the hands of the organisers assisted by the Police and closes the road to normal traffic.

[keefr22]

The aspects of driving covered by todays changes have ALWAYS been illegal.  Secondly the RTA is an act of parliament, it applies to the whole country.  Private land or not, if it looks like a road (legally defined just as being a route that goes somewhere that can be accessed by traffic or pedestrians, this includes car parks usually as your destination is the parking space or shop) and so long as the land owner has not granted their own rules to you then the act applies in full.  All that has happened is to allow fixed penalties to be used for things that previously meant a court appearance.

Yes my thread title was a bit 'Daily Mail' - but the point is the FPN. It's now far easier for an anti road rally traffic cop (& they are about - or they were when I was last doing road rallies back in the dark ages - can't see that having changed!) to slap an FPN on just about every driver on a road rally - & then it's up to them to accept the three points or go to court. How many competitors will choose the latter with all the hassle that involves - & I think it was the hassle involved that would have led to most trafplod's not bothering about wheel spinning & handbraking on road rallies. Will that now be the case when it's just a couple of minutes to write out an FPN?
 

When there is a road rally on, just as when we are filming stunts on a road, there is a Traffic Management Order (court order) in place on the road.  This puts responsibility in the hands of the organisers assisted by the Police and closes the road to normal traffic.

Nope, not the case. Road rallies have always taken place on open public roads, open to all other traffic.

[Dan]

  Ah well in that case there might be a problem.  The current regime do have an issue with using the roads for fun.  I was thinking you were talking about stages, of course that's not the case.

[rally1380]

Plenty of anti road rally coppers out there still i'm afraid.  Last years Gogledd rally had a plod telling crews to slow down....on a 60mph bit of road too, and i doubt very much they were doing 60 or above as it was a very tight and twisty section.

 

The thing that gets me is although road rally crews are driving rather briskly (politically correct way of says 'probably speeding!') there are far less accidents caused during road rallies than when you compare it to drink drivers driving home after a skin full of ale. 

 

Is this 'new' ruling there to stop road rallies or is it more aimed at boy racer idiots treating the streets and carparks like something from a computer game??  You have only got to look on youtube to see driving 'fails'.

 

Just my opinion on it.....i personally don't think its to stop rallying, or autotests, or motorsport in general, I think it is to give the coppers more power to stop morons in BMW's and Saxo's doing donuts in tesco's car parks....I could be wrong though...it has happened before (i think?)

[Carlos W]

Plenty of anti road rally coppers out there still i'm afraid.  Last years Gogledd rally had a plod telling crews to slow down....on a 60mph bit of road too, and i doubt very much they were doing 60 or above as it was a very tight and twisty section.

 

The thing that gets me is although road rally crews are driving rather briskly (politically correct way of says 'probably speeding!') there are far less accidents caused during road rallies than when you compare it to drink drivers driving home after a skin full of ale. 

 

Is this 'new' ruling there to stop road rallies or is it more aimed at boy racer idiots treating the streets and carparks like something from a computer game??  You have only got to look on youtube to see driving 'fails'.

 

Just my opinion on it.....i personally don't think its to stop rallying, or autotests, or motorsport in general, I think it is to give the coppers more power to stop morons in BMW's and Saxo's doing donuts in tesco's car parks....I could be wrong though...it has happened before (i think?)

I hope and think you're right!

 

This should be about anti social driving rather than motorsport.

 

I must stop switching the traction control off in the Mazda, it'll light the front wheels up in 3rd in the wet

[keefr22]

Is this 'new' ruling there to stop road rallies or is it more aimed at boy racer idiots treating the streets and carparks like something from a computer game??  You have only got to look on youtube to see driving 'fails'.
 
Just my opinion on it.....i personally don't think its to stop rallying, or autotests, or motorsport in general, I think it is to give the coppers more power to stop morons in BMW's and Saxo's doing donuts in tesco's car parks....I could be wrong though...it has happened before (i think?)

I would think that's probably the 'spirit' of the law - those planks are obviously the most obvious to the public. I just worry that it gives that much more easy power to plods like the one you mention to disrupt road rallies in particular. I hope I'mm worrying for nothing. I mentioned autotests more in jest than anything, as MSA permits should prevent plods having free rein there.....

[Cooperman]

Road rallying has become a bit of a 'fringe' motor-sport these days, although when I started rallying (in 1959!) all rallies were road rallies.
Sad as it may seem, the idea of rally crews winning because they lost less time at the time controls due to driving faster on public roads will become, or has become, largely unacceptable. This has to be faced. It will be he end of an era which has lasted almost 100 years since the first 'reliability trials' before WW1.
But we have to move with the times and with technology.
There was a road rally a while back when 'plod' came out with a speed gun and although not sent out to prosecute, rather to assess the situation, they were surprised when some rally cars were clocked on a less-than-straight piece of single track road at over 100 mph at night.
Can anyone remember the old Motoring News Championship rallies? They were, quite simply, road-races on open public roads, and I know because I did that championship for several years.

[keefr22]

Can anyone remember the old Motoring News Championship rallies? They were, quite simply, road-races on open public roads, and I know because I did that championship for several years.

I remember them well - & from what I recall the episode with plod with the speed gun was on an MN event & led to the major changes in the mid 80's? I only did a couple of MN events - I was too slow...!! They really were the good old days though!! To be honest, I thought all road events had become little more than plot n bash navigational trials - I was really surprised when I found out last year there were still pre-plot events!

[rally1380]

Road rallying has become a bit of a 'fringe' motor-sport these days, although when I started rallying (in 1959!) all rallies were road rallies.
Sad as it may seem, the idea of rally crews winning because they lost less time at the time controls due to driving faster on public roads will become, or has become, largely unacceptable. This has to be faced. It will be he end of an era which has lasted almost 100 years since the first 'reliability trials' before WW1.
But we have to move with the times and with technology.
There was a road rally a while back when 'plod' came out with a speed gun and although not sent out to prosecute, rather to assess the situation, they were surprised when some rally cars were clocked on a less-than-straight piece of single track road at over 100 mph at night.
Can anyone remember the old Motoring News Championship rallies? They were, quite simply, road-races on open public roads, and I know because I did that championship for several years.

 

 

This is all very true, but what are the alternatives?  The trouble is, cars have moved with the times and technology, and thats why anyone with a few quid can go out and buy a car capable of well over 120mph, and it will do that speed all day/night long.

 

I like doing (night) road rallies because they offer great value for money and you can do them with a pretty standard car with no need to throw mega bucks into it.  If road rallies fall foul of the law, what entry level motorsport would there be? 

 

Historic road rallies are different as the average speeds are far more plod happy, but they don't exactly offer the same level of excitement.....even though they are very enjoyable....and you do meet some great people through such events.

 

Stage rallying is just far too pie £ in £ the £ sky for the majority of people.  Are Targa rallies the way forward? And will Endurance Rallying also fall foul of the latest law revisions.

 

Surely harder restrictions on noise, tyres, and modifications would help decrease road rally speeds?  Or will there always be someone out there bending the rules to gain those extra few seconds.

 

Or are well all barking up the wrong tree and these rules are just  to crack down on anti social drivers rather than motorsport peeps.

[keefr22]

Or are well all barking up the wrong tree and these rules are just  to crack down on anti social drivers rather than motorsport peeps.

Fingers crossed, but I guess time will tell. Just don't you all take up hillclimbing - it's hard enough getting an entry as it is...!!!

Edited by keefr22, 19 August 2013 - 07:54 PM.