173 replies to this topic

[minisi35]

They are similar events really but night rallies are faster and rougher and held at antisocial times!!!!.....still good fun though!

Just to give you some idea of what a "white" is ive got this pic from one of the first rallies i competed on. We slowed down and smiled for the photographer

[rally1380]

Ha Ha.....superb photo.

Looks more like a slurry pit overflow than a white!!! AWESOME!!!!



Forgot to mention earlier in my reply to DEPS question......The navigation is different between the two types of rallying. Night rallying is fairly straight forward using grid ref's as Si so expertly explained in his guide to navigation.

Historic stuff is more criptic and you almost need to be a code breaker to 'translate' the code onto the map. They can be as simple as spot heights, or grid lines or even the colour of the joining roads. But once you tune into the methods it is straight forward. But then you have to take into account the average speed changes too...........so it's alot to take in, but once mastered i'm sure it will be simples.

Will talk more about all that at a later date when i get chance to put it down in writing.

[rally1380]

Anyone got any more rally photos of them doing an event to share and inspire????

[Cooperman]

[rally1380]

Brilliant photo....Cooperman concentrating at driving fast and smooth.....and his navigator has nodded off!!!

[DEPS]

Thanks guys. Your answers have made it much clearer and the pictures are definitely inspiring! Like the idea of "more challenging" average speeds and simpler navigation :) !!

Felt it was a bit of a daft question, but when I first became interested in rallying in the mid 80's road rallies seemed to be getting some bad press as I remember? Our club did not run them and so we were always at stage events and it has to be said having great fun driving between stages on the RAC.

[rally1380]

Thanks guys. Your answers have made it much clearer and the pictures are definitely inspiring! Like the idea of "more challenging" average speeds and simpler navigation :) !!

Felt it was a bit of a daft question, but when I first became interested in rallying in the mid 80's road rallies seemed to be getting some bad press as I remember? Our club did not run them and so we were always at stage events and it has to be said having great fun driving between stages on the RAC.

Not a daft question at all. Road rallying did get bad press and to be honest I think it still is.... People not wanting the route to go past their house....too much noise....Boy racer loons driving like idiots to spectator points or following the route....etc etc.

I understand it from both sides though. I've seen the way some spectators act.....and it ain't pretty. Drunk idiots they may be, but they tar everyone with the same brush and give road rallying a bad press.

But it is an awesome and affordable form of motorsport and should be enjoyed....get out there and give it a bash before it gets banned or clubs loose interest in organising them.

[DEPS]

Know what you mean about spectators. Used to do a lot of marshalling from single venues through to RAC. Found the bigger the event the worse the spectators. standing in stupid positions and giving abuse when you tried to move them. As always it is the minority who potentially spoil it for the majority.

Hey I have just turned 50 so am allowed a grumpy old man rant now and again :)

[Cooperman]

A night test on Brandiston Airfield on the East Anglian Classic:

[rally1380]

So.....you've joined a motorclub, marshalled on an event or two, and read Si's excellent guide to navigating and fancy a bash at an event.....where do I start I hear you ask???

 

You can just jump straight in at the deep end and do any Road Rally....but for those who like to crawl, then walk, then run.....here's a tip or two.

 

 

First up would be a Scatter Rally

 

Scatter's are a bit like treasure hunts. You get a load of grid ref's to plot on a map and it is your choice which of these G.R.'s you visit. Usually there is a clue attached to these points to prove you visited there (like total number of miles on a road sign, or number on a lamp post etc) and you have to go around answering as many clues as possible and get as many points as you can.....crew with most points wins.

 

This is a great way to build a crew's relationship and learn how to plot G.R.'s and learn how to communicate to each other - calling out junctions etc. Scatters also help to learn time keeping as you only have a set time to go around your plotted route and get back to the finish venue. They are also cheap to do, and you can do them in a totally standard car. You will need a map light of some sort though like the Don Barrow one on page 1.

 

 

Next rung on the rally ladder are 12 Car Rallies.

 

As the name suggests, these are events for up to 12 cars and are more like proper road rallies. At the start venue, your car will get scrutineered and then on your assigned minute, you are given the route to plot. Again, this is a crew building exercise, letting you and you nav get into the routine of what to do when and what information needs to be given when.

 

Route plotted...and you're off.  The 12 car we did recently had average speed regularity sections right the way through, but i feel this isn't the norm, so i'd appreciate if someone out there could comment on 12 cars for me and let the good people of TMF know what 12 cars are all about.

 

They're great fun though and offer you a real glimpse of what road rallying is like as they have proper start, time, finish and passage controls. Also proper NAM (not as map) diagram's to negotiate.....and they're cheap so get out there and have a go.

 

 

Next up......Novice Road Rally.

 

We've got one coming up in the next few weeks and can't wait. These are proper road rallies, but are only open to less experienced crews so you won't get the rabbit in the headlights feeling of a proper 'grown up' road rally with full blown 250BHP escorts!!!!!

 

We did one called the Roamerlite rally last year and was a great first rally, so can highly recommend it to anyone. 

 

You're car will need to pass 'noise' first - limit is 96 dB measured at 0.5m. My car has a twin 1.75" maniflow system and measures around 88 dB so passes easily.  Any loud boy racer exhausts and you will be near the limit....plus they waste power so get your car a proper exhaust instead of that 3" system!  Fail 'noise' and you are disqualified, unless you can fix it asap!!!

 

Scrutineering next. No holes in bulkheads and everthing secured and you'll be fine.  Get a copy of the MSA bluebook (you can download it too) and study the regulations and build your car accordingly...no point building a car you can't use eh?

 

So, you passed noise, and the scutineer gave you the thumbs up...off to signing on.

 

Here you will (funnily enough) sign on, then confirm insurance (you need special insurance for road rallies) and then cofirm you're a member of the organising club - novice rallies are usually only open to members of the organising club (so you'll need to join...duh!) which is good as it means you don't have to fork out for a competition licence.

 

Route is given like 12 cars, on your given minute and then you'll usually have 2 hours (ish) to plot the route.  Make sure you and your nav know what you are doing at this point as 2 hours will fly by and the sooner you get the route down, the sooner you can chill before the off!

 

So....all is well.....you've not had a massive arguement over plotting the route....you have remembered to fill up with fuel before the event, and you are queued up ready to go!!

 

On your alloted minute, you will start. This isn't like a F1 start by the way. The start of a rally is a rather chilled out start as you're not actually competative at this point.....that comes a the first selective start....then its foot down time!!!!

 

This is when all that practice on scatters and 12 cars comes in handy.  The nav is the important part now....they need to call out junctions before you get there, and be aware of NAM sections where you'll need to go the long way round a triangles on an approach to a Passage control (PC). Drive sensibly, and listen to the navigater. Wrong slot, or miss a control and you pick up a fail. But get the route right, and zero fails, and you're on to a good finish...loads of people will go wrong and pick up fails....don't on you'll beat them even if you're slower!!!

 

Route done...off to finish venue for a well earned coffee and fry up.....and the results!!!!!!!!

 

The RoamerLite rally was a smooth event, so normal tyres and a standard ish car will do. Well organised, good simple to plot route. We finished 2nd in class.

 

The next rally we are doing is a Clwyd Vale MC organised AutoMark rally and is going to use non metaled roads (rough stuff) so i'm preparing the car accordingly....more on that to come.....can't wait!!!!!!!

 

Anyone fancy a look at the regs, or even facies a bash....here's the link......enjoy

 

http://www.cvmc.org.uk/

 

Cheers for reading guys, and any experienced drivers or navigaters out there??? I'd appreciate if you wrote a bit on here to offer pearls of wisdom to anyone who thinks themself as the new Sebastian Loeb....but in a mini! Cheers in advance.

Edited by rally1380, 27 April 2013 - 09:42 PM.

[Cooperman]

The navigator is the basic key to success. It's no good being the fastest and smoothest driver if you spend your time going the wrong way.
Once the route is on the map the navigator must ensure that the best progress is made on the correct route.
The 1:50000 OS maps as used on all road rallies are very accurate. The road can be 'read' to the driver who needs to know not only which way to turn at junctions, but the severity of all bends and the distance to the next bend of junction.
I always used a set pattern for road reading which is 'distance, feature, instruction' and always in that order. So the driver knows how far to the next feature, what that feature is and any instruction at that feature.
Typically, the road reading could be something like: "4/10ths x-roads turn left - 1/10th square right tight - 3/10ths 30 left into square right opens - 2/10ths yellow road off right turn right sharp - 3/10ths long 45 right - 1/10th fork keep 30 left ..........
The distance I always read in 1/10ths of a mile and corners in degrees unless it's square or a hairpin.
As you gain experience your road reading will improve and the driver will get better information enabling a better driving performance.
At the same time the navigator must 'manage' the event by keeping a look at the clock, knowing how far to the next fuel, keeping a track of how the event is going, warning the driver of 'quiet zones, give-way junctions where all rally cars must come to a complete stop, and giving the driver confidence. The driver MUST know what is expected of him/her at all times including what sort of section it is.
I did an historic night rally where one section of about 12 miles was given as a reverse route card. The instructions gave the route in order from the end of the section back to the beginning. We pulled clear of the start and the route had to be plotted and the section driven in 24 minutes including visiting about 8 passage controls. My navigator (my son Mick) said that if the road was being accurately read all the time I could average about 45 mph. So he thought we could do the section in about 18 minutes. So instead of just driving off as most other crews did, trying to 'reverse plot' on the move whilst keeping on route, we simply stopped, Mick plotted it and then I went at absolute maximum I could. We were the only crew to 'clean' the section and we waited 1 minute at the end to be on time. No other crew 'cleaned' that section and we won the event overall. So, the navigator was the real key as his awareness enabled us to do it right. Mind you, my 110 bhp+ Cooper 'S' helped us to beat a Lotus Cortina and a Porsche 911 in the lanes.

Edited by Cooperman, 27 April 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[rally1380]

Superb post Pete...many thanks.

 

 

Also, I have been asked to do a little write up on 'Regularity' sections within Historic Rallies....I will get to that at some stage.

[Cooperman]

The most important thing in reading the road is to use a specific format, as I said above. So it's always 'DISTANCE, FEATURE, INSTRUCTION', in that order - always in that order.
I've heard navigators say "Take the next turning on the right". So I then ask "How far". AS a driver it is necessary to know whether to drive quickly and carry speed through the bends or to be ready to brake and turn at a junction. Accuracy in road reading is absolutely vital and the distance to the next feature is just so important as it determines how the driver sets the car up on the road.
Also, when checking times or plotting whilst on the move the driver must know that he is 'on his own' and that no reading of the bends will be done. But, when plotting, don't lose track of where you are on the map.
And a crew must practice and practice and practice road reading and driving to the navigator's instructions.

[DEPS]

Great posts guys. Well written and very informative.

[rally1380]

Great posts guys. Well written and very informative.

 

I'm very much a novice at all this, so trying my best to share any knowledge i've gained (not alot really!)....whereas Cooperman is certainly someone with a wealth of information stored away up there in his grey cells....and anyone who wants to rally a mini needs to listen to him.  Plus he's a really nice guy with a great sense of humour!  His and whizzo's standup (i mean informative talk about rallying!) routine is very funny!!!