173 replies to this topic

[DEPS]

Hi,

Just about to rebuild front subframe, new bushes etc. My tie bars look a little bent, so looking at heavy duty replacements, but looks like you can only get adjustable ones are these permissible for historics?

Also did anyone find out if short front clubman bumpers are ok?

[rally1380]

Hi,

Just about to rebuild front subframe, new bushes etc. My tie bars look a little bent, so looking at heavy duty replacements, but looks like you can only get adjustable ones are these permissible for historics?

Also did anyone find out if short front clubman bumpers are ok?

 

Still ain't seen my scrutineer friend......will fire an email over to him and ask.

 

I've got adjustable Tie Bars and passed scrutineering with them....not sure they even checked though.  One way to get round it is to set them to the correct length for your suspension setup, and then put a spot of weld on the adjuster/thread area - essentially making them fixed.  But only do that if you fall foul of the scrute or think it'll be an issue.  You could always disguise the thread with some rubber tube over it and paint it all the same colour....will just look like a beefed up one then.

[KRM_Simon]

From what I can remember adjustable tie rods are allowed, adjustable bottom arms aren't

[DEPS]

Thanks guys. think it is probably the adjustable arms, which isn't a problem as my are fixed -1.5 neg.

[rally1380]

Also did anyone find out if short front clubman bumpers are ok?

 

Right...got a good email reply from my scrute friend.

 

Essentially its a No to any modification that ain't either factory or done by the works/rally teams in the period.  So...even though that clubby was able to run, it may have been with the warning that you can run this time, but get it changed for the next event.

 

He also picked up on the front number plate not being legal but i reckon you could argue that one.  He has mentioned several other bits wrong with the car....roof colour and arch extensions etc but will inform him that works teams fitted these so they are in fact ok....he's not a mini man, so doubt he's familiar with some stuff.

 

The best bet for any modification for historics is to try and get period photographic evidence.  That way you can pull out the picture or arcticle from Motoring News of the time and that will defuse any issue the scrute has.

 

He also said refer to the Blue Book....and we all know thats an interesting read!!!!!!

 

More often than not (unless its a daft modification) they 'will' let you run, but seems pointless building a car to rally that will, on its first event be refused by the scrutineers.  Get proof and you'll be fine.

 

Let me know if this helps, and i can PM you his email for you to read if needs be.

[keefr22]

He also picked up on the front number plate not being legal but i reckon you could argue that one.  He has mentioned several other bits wrong with the car....roof colour and arch extensions etc but will inform him that works teams fitted these so they are in fact ok....he's not a mini man, so doubt he's familiar with some stuff.
 
The best bet for any modification for historics is to try and get period photographic evidence.  That way you can pull out the picture or arcticle from Motoring News of the time and that will defuse any issue the scrute has.

I'm still not 100% clear on this - but then it seems a lot of scrutes won't be either! My understanding of the HRCR categories is that only mods allowed in that period's homologation papers are allowed for each category. So the problem with period photographs is that a 1970 car could be running on say a club event photographed in MN in 1979, but the then current 1979 homologation may not cover the mods shown in the photos, & the earlier homologation papers would have expired...!! But I'm probably thinking way too much about it anyway!

We did the Epynt hillclimb yesterday, some lovely Mini's out (unfortunately there was no time to take pics!) but we especially liked a yellow stage rally car - don't think it could have been historic spec given the standard of weld in roll cage & other interior mods, but it was bl**dy quick!! It finally decided me though that I definitely want rid of the Ibiza now to concentrate on the Mini. But the next decision will have to be - build to historic, or modern stage specs...??!!

[rally1380]

 

He also picked up on the front number plate not being legal but i reckon you could argue that one.  He has mentioned several other bits wrong with the car....roof colour and arch extensions etc but will inform him that works teams fitted these so they are in fact ok....he's not a mini man, so doubt he's familiar with some stuff.
 
The best bet for any modification for historics is to try and get period photographic evidence.  That way you can pull out the picture or arcticle from Motoring News of the time and that will defuse any issue the scrute has.

I'm still not 100% clear on this - but then it seems a lot of scrutes won't be either! My understanding of the HRCR categories is that only mods allowed in that period's homologation papers are allowed for each category. So the problem with period photographs is that a 1970 car could be running on say a club event photographed in MN in 1979, but the then current 1979 homologation may not cover the mods shown in the photos, & the earlier homologation papers would have expired...!! But I'm probably thinking way too much about it anyway!

We did the Epynt hillclimb yesterday, some lovely Mini's out (unfortunately there was no time to take pics!) but we especially liked a yellow stage rally car - don't think it could have been historic spec given the standard of weld in roll cage & other interior mods, but it was bl**dy quick!! It finally decided me though that I definitely want rid of the Ibiza now to concentrate on the Mini. But the next decision will have to be - build to historic, or modern stage specs...??!!

 

 

Hi Keith

 

When i say period photographic evidence...it ain't as simple as providing the scrute with a photo taken by some dude back in the day.....because we all know photoshop can cheat this.   As an example....i've got a copy of Car and Car Conversions from december 1974 (It has a pretty trick rally mini in there) and because this issue fits the cat 2 age criteria, I can effectively modify my mini (also cat 2) to this spec.  Hope this clears that up??

 

As for your mini and prepping it......go for it!!!!  And how much for the Ibiza?????

[keefr22]

Hi Keith
 
When i say period photographic evidence...it ain't as simple as providing the scrute with a photo taken by some dude back in the day.....because we all know photoshop can cheat this.   As an example....i've got a copy of Car and Car Conversions from december 1974 (It has a pretty trick rally mini in there) and because this issue fits the cat 2 age criteria, I can effectively modify my mini (also cat 2) tothis spec.  Hope this clears that up??

Yep, I know what your saying, but what I'm wittering on about is that homologation (IIRC) only lasts 5 years - so if that Mini in CCC was built in 1968 the stuff on it may not all be OK for a 74 car... However, if that 74 car was built that year to the then current homologation, we could possibly use the stuff on our 79 car! My head hurts...!! And as I say I'm probably thinking waaaay too much about it!!
 

As for your mini and prepping it......go for it!!!!

It's more a case of finishing it off & getting it running again first off - most of the prep work has been done, it's mainly just re-doing it properly! After seeing that yellow car yesterday I think my son would prefer to go 'modern' so he could put more of the new trick bits on it (when he can afford them!)& not worry about getting the historic bits right. There;s no way we could afford to do a full historic championship season anyway, so there seems little point in actually going that route.
 

And how much for the Ibiza?????

Looking for somewhere around £1400-1500

ATB
Keith

Edited by keefr22, 16 June 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[DEPS]

Thanks Dave. Was thinking short bumpers would be illegal, but worth asking the question. just been outbid on a full front bumper on e bay! But plenty to do before a bumper is necessary!

[rally1380]

Thanks Dave. Was thinking short bumpers would be illegal, but worth asking the question. just been outbid on a full front bumper on e bay! But plenty to do before a bumper is necessary!

 

Might know someone in my motorclub who's got a dented one if that will do?  I was going to buy it as a spare, but until mine looks like a banana i figured there wasn't any point.  Will ask him either way tonight.

[rally1380]

 

Hi Keith
 
When i say period photographic evidence...it ain't as simple as providing the scrute with a photo taken by some dude back in the day.....because we all know photoshop can cheat this.   As an example....i've got a copy of Car and Car Conversions from december 1974 (It has a pretty trick rally mini in there) and because this issue fits the cat 2 age criteria, I can effectively modify my mini (also cat 2) tothis spec.  Hope this clears that up??

Yep, I know what your saying, but what I'm wittering on about is that homologation (IIRC) only lasts 5 years - so if that Mini in CCC was built in 1968 the stuff on it may not all be OK for a 74 car... However, if that 74 car was built that year to the then current homologation, we could possibly use the stuff on our 79 car! My head hurts...!! And as I say I'm probably thinking waaaay too much about it!!
 

As for your mini and prepping it......go for it!!!!

It's more a case of finishing it off & getting it running again first off - most of the prep work has been done, it's mainly just re-doing it properly! After seeing that yellow car yesterday I think my son would prefer to go 'modern' so he could put more of the new trick bits on it (when he can afford them!)& not worry about getting the historic bits right. There;s no way we could afford to do a full historic championship season anyway, so there seems little point in actually going that route.
 

And how much for the Ibiza?????

Looking for somewhere around £1400-1500

ATB
Keith

 

 

Still unsure if i want to get a 'modern' car for road rallying.....just ain't got the appeal (apart from a mk1 golf gti!) as a mini.   Plus so many people come over and have a chat (is that a good thing when you're plotting the route!)  that its hard to warrant a different car.  An ibiza is on my potential list though....along with Pug GTi's, a Focus ST170, and Proton Gti too.  Also fancy a mk3 golf 16v 2.0 gti but think they are a bit lardy!!!

 

Anyway....as we are still learning. the clubby will still do the job....and it's not slow at the end of the day!

[keefr22]

Still unsure if i want to get a 'modern' car for road rallying.....just ain't got the appeal (apart from a mk1 golf gti!) as a mini.   Plus so many people come over and have a chat (is that a good thing when you're plotting the route!)  that its hard to warrant a different car.  An ibiza is on my potential list though....along with Pug GTi's, a Focus ST170, and Proton Gti too.  Also fancy a mk3 golf 16v 2.0 gti but think they are a bit lardy!!!
 
Anyway....as we are still learning. the clubby will still do the job....and it's not slow at the end of the day!

When sorted they certainly aren't slow, but not as quick as the Ibiza - but then they handle a lot better than the SEAT (although that handles really well too!) & if you're doing an event with capacity classes it's in a lower class. I really like driving the Ibiza (possibly even more than the Mini, as I have a muscle illness & the power steering really helps me out there) but the Clubby, as you say, just has so much more character. The only reason I'm looking to sell the Ibiza is I simply can't afford to keep both, so have had to make the decision. Of your list of 'moderns' I think the Ibiza would beat any of them, except maybe the Pug. It has a 150bhp Golf GTi motor & is less than a 1000kg with interior trim, & it's also smaller & more nimble than all except the 205....!!

[rally1380]

 

Still unsure if i want to get a 'modern' car for road rallying.....just ain't got the appeal (apart from a mk1 golf gti!) as a mini.   Plus so many people come over and have a chat (is that a good thing when you're plotting the route!)  that its hard to warrant a different car.  An ibiza is on my potential list though....along with Pug GTi's, a Focus ST170, and Proton Gti too.  Also fancy a mk3 golf 16v 2.0 gti but think they are a bit lardy!!!
 
Anyway....as we are still learning. the clubby will still do the job....and it's not slow at the end of the day!

When sorted they certainly aren't slow, but not as quick as the Ibiza - but then they handle a lot better than the SEAT (although that handles really well too!) & if you're doing an event with capacity classes it's in a lower class. I really like driving the Ibiza (possibly even more than the Mini, as I have a muscle illness & the power steering really helps me out there) but the Clubby, as you say, just has so much more character. The only reason I'm looking to sell the Ibiza is I simply can't afford to keep both, so have had to make the decision. Of your list of 'moderns' I think the Ibiza would beat any of them, except maybe the Pug. It has a 150bhp Golf GTi motor & is less than a 1000kg with interior trim, & it's also smaller & more nimble than all except the 205....!!

 

 

Will PM you...see if we can come to a deal.....

[DEPS]

Thanks Dave. Was thinking short bumpers would be illegal, but worth asking the question. just been outbid on a full front bumper on e bay! But plenty to do before a bumper is necessary!

 
Might know someone in my motorclub who's got a dented one if that will do?  I was going to buy it as a spare, but until mine looks like a banana i figured there wasn't any point.  Will ask him either way tonight.

Hi, sounds like a possibility. I have missed 2 on e bay in last seconds of auctions. Would like to get a reasonable one if I can but don't want to spend £165 on a new minispares one! Just looking at another one that is quite good, but down in London and won't post, but down that way in a couple of weeks, so another possibility??

[rally1380]

Thought i'd revive this thread as grass routes motorsport is close to my heart and figure i'd try and get this thread noticed by a few other TMF'ers.