59 replies to this topic

[Cooperman]

It's a bit ridiculous really to try to compare a 55 year-old design with a modern design. There is no comparison as they are, quite simply, completely different.
A Mini is a true classic car and the comparison should be with other classic cars.
When the Mini was introduced there were no questions like 'how much power would a 1929 Austin 7 need to beat a 1964 Cooper 'S'' although that would be a similar type of comparison.

[Noah]

I don't see how comparing them is that different to comparing a Clio Williams to a Clio 200 or a 205 GTi to a 206 GTi.

Though the age difference is there, the BMW MINI was designed of the basis of the original MINI, the whole thing they aimed to do with it was keep the iconic Go-Kart like feel and handling ability. Considering the very last few Mini's had Electronic Fuel Injection and an Airbag, I don't see anything wrong with a comparison between A Late Model MPi Cooper S (Though some people don't believe these to be real cooper 'S') I do.

(Not trying to start a Argument, juts a genuine point)

Edited by Noah, 20 December 2012 - 10:56 PM.

[Cooperman]

Ah, but comparing, say, a 205GTI to a 206GTI is comparing evolutionary designs. Comparing a 1958-designed car to a completely different 2000 designed car is not in any way evolutionary, it's more comparing cars of different generations. With the Peuget comparison you wouldn't compare a 1959 Peugeot to a 206GTI.
The use of the Mini name on the BINI is a marketing tool to get back the investment made in the name when they bought Rover. Nothing was 'carry over' except the name.
In fact, it would be more appropriate to compare the Mini to the Rover 214 as at least they came from the same design office (Longbridge), bu tthat would be an unfair comparison too.
The Mini is arguably the ultimate classic car. The BINI is another modern front-wheel-drive medium size car. It would be much more appropriate to compare the BINI to the BMW 1-Series - similar size, same manufacturer, modern performance.

[giner88]

your also forgetting aerodynamics in the past, when the mini we all know and love was thought up. im not 100% sure but i doubt very much the aerodynamics were taken into account, where as modern cars go under lots of testing to find the best aerodynamics. thats probably why alot of cars look nearly the same these days, not many surfaces that are at right angles to the road.

[ChopperHarris]

The classic would win in the eyes of anyone bothered to watch anyway

[ChopperHarris]

Utter tosh (he says politely)
"Though the age difference is there"
Only 50 years
Compare a MGB to an MX5...hmm

[J666ERA]

Liking what cooperman has to say ;)

[Tahiti Joe]

As previously mentioned, by Cooperman I think... BHP is not everything. People get hung up on horsepower and even torque figures. Where in the grand scheme of things when actually driving a car hard, especially on the road, 'peak' figures have very little relevance. Sure you could get a classic mini to well over a 100hp naturally aspirated, but how it produces that power will be very different to anything modern. Chances are the engine wont come on cam until well after 3000rpm and wont really be pulling until after 4k.... An R53 Cooper S, will pull well from around 2000rpm all the way to the redline. Meaning that the powerband is much wiser resulting in a much more usable rev range... Another point is that surely if we're comparing modified classics, with a 100bhp engines, isn't it more fair to compare them to a modified Cooper S? 240bhp is fairly easily achievable in them....

[mab01uk]

Im thinkin more drag race but all races. Opinions glad to hear :)

Take a look at this video and go along to 'Mini in the Park' next year for lots of exciting Mini v MINI drag racing action on the strip!

[giner88]

alot of bump starts going on there

[villa3]

Why do people still compere the mini with bmws new small car,apart from the name they have nothing in common

[jonny95]

a classic mini, regardless of power, will still be about as aerodynamic as a house brick which will give you a big disadvantage in a race

[Ethel]

That's the sort of argument that makes the comparison interesting. A Mini is fundamentally different: smaller & lighter, but less streamlined and powerful, opposite sides of the same coin.

[mab01uk]

Why do people still compere the mini with bmws new small car,apart from the name they have nothing in common

Because like it or not it is the modern version of the Mini, was originally designed /developed by Rover engineers at Longbridge and Gaydon and carries its name.......in the same way a modern Ford Fiesta or VW Golf continues the marque (but have nothing in common - parts wise) with say a Mk1 Fiesta or Mk1 Golf. The MINI also handles and steers exceptionally well, is great fun to drive, modify and own and has a very strong worldwide enthusiast following and community behind it.........

Edited by mab01uk, 21 December 2012 - 07:45 AM.

[998dave]

BHP per tonne -

BMW Mini Cooper S - 1210kg seems to be the weight.

1210 / 1000 = 1.21 tonnes

180bhp / 1.21 tonnes - 148.76BHP/Tonne



Classic mini - 650kg I believe at max althou it says 645kg

650 / 1000 = 0.65

100bhp / 0.65 tonnes - 153.84BHP/Tonne


So according to my figures, a classic mini at 100bhp should be faster atleast at the start than the new BMW mini. Maybe top end, probably not as more gears and larger engine but off the line and hopefully up to 80/90 mph, id guess the classic mini be faster

I'm afraid it's much more complicated then that, for a start you only have peak power at one particular rpm.
Acceleration, at least at the start, is more to do with torque, and the BINI has much, much more of that then a standard mini does.

Dave