16 replies to this topic

[cradley-heathen]

a very good friend of mine has just come back from working in barcelona for 9 months, before he went he sold his astra, and is now car-less.

he asked me if i fancied going to look at a few cars today, so off we went. the candidates were bmw 1 series, new merc a class, vw golf and scirocco.after a quick discussion in the car this morning we whittled it down to just the scirocco and the 1 series, with the golf being "too boring" and the merc being a front wheel drive (i know the vw's are fwd, but for a merc, thats just not right?)

http://www.bmw.co.uk...n4s2c9#TILTVIEW
we went to bmw first, benhams in wolvo, and tried out the 1 series. my mate wants a diesel as he will be doing a few miles, and decided he wanted an auto too. having already driven exactly that (my mum bought one earlier this year) i knew what to expect. my friend however didnt, and was very impressed. build quality you would expect, smooth engine with plenty grunt, and silky gearchanges from the autobox. so now for the rival...

http://www.volkswage...opular-choices/
we then went to vw. im sure you have all seen the new scirocco, and personaly i must admit it is a good looking car, with those hips at the back and the mean headlight stare, it certainly has presence. it was also a good few grand cheaper, but this was reflected in the spec. out on the road it was a far cry from the bmw though, the ride was pretty hard, but not in a sporty way, just a a crude sort of clunky way. infact the entire interior looked pretty cheap by comparison too imo. after just ten minutes on the road (i was in the back, my mate driving and the sales guy in the passenger seat) i felt so sick, i had to ask them to open the window for some air. infact i couldnt get out of it quick enough when we got back.

there were several other aspects to consider, and on the whole the bmw was better in almost all areas. i was just wondering if anyone else has driven the two and had an opinion on the two?

[jb93]

Has he considered an A3? You can't beat them IMO, the quality is by far superior to that of the 1 series

[minilee94]

id go vw all the way but thats only because im a vw commercial speacialist :) very well built

[mike.]

My dad leased a scirocco for 3 years and we were all gutted to see it go at the end of the lease. The suspension wasn't hard at all I didn't think - It had 3 mods, comfort, normal and sport - The one you test drove may have been sat in sport mode. On comfort mode it drove like a golf and was comfy. The grip and road holding was great on it to, even when it was getting thrashed it just felt capable. Rear seat comfort was compromised with the back of the car being narrow to give it the big arches and coupe shape, headroom wasn't great but overall it was good considering its a 3 door coupe at the end of the day.

After that my dad also looked at the new 1 series and I thought it was dire! The interior quality was ok but I didn't think it was a touch on the scirocco - The radio looks like something out of a volvo 940 and the screen on the top of the dash looks like a complete after thought to me. The steering wheel is also pretty bland in comparison. I also found it cramped - Hands on the wheel the door was in the way of my elbow which led to an awkward driving position and in the back seats it felt as though I was sat on a big uneven cushion because of the rear wheel arch placement. The rear seat isn't flat it has a big bulge in it which again just forced me to sit in an awkward position. I definitely wouldn't want to be a passenger in one for more than 20 mins or so.

I can't comment on the way the BMW drives, i've seen reviews though and its supposed to be really good - But can that make up for that hideous front end? To me the best thing about the BMW is the fact you don't have to look at the front of it when you sat in it. But then again the interior does nothing for me either so all round its a let down for me.

In the end my dad went for an A3 S line black edition. That was a seriously nice car, interior layout and materials were great. The black edition came with bose sound system which was ace too. Driving wise I thought again it was great, similar to the scirocco but not a massive amount of steering feel - Like many modern cars.

Word of warning though, the flasher the model he goes for the higher the risk. My dad had his A3 a few months before it was stolen off our driveway after our house was burgled for the keys. Burglary happened at 9pm on a week night too - The thieves have no mercy when it comes to this.

[Carlos W]

The 123d has got 200bhp

[jb93]

The 123d has got 200bhp

...and a DPF that will clog up. Is he doing enough miles to warrent having a diesel, because these new engines don't like short journeys.

[Carlos W]

The 123d has got 200bhp

...and a DPF that will clog up. Is he doing enough miles to warrent having a diesel, because these new engines don't like short journeys.

Are all these DPF clogging up rumours as bad as everyone makes out?

I heard as long as you use decent oil, and decent runs all will be fine.

[jb93]

Are all these DPF clogging up rumours as bad as everyone makes out?

I heard as long as you use decent oil, and decent runs all will be fine.

For a new car, yes they are a lot of a ball ache. I'd expect if I was paying as much as these cars cost to be able to use the car for any journey. Use them for lots of short journeys, and they clog up. Which I don't think is good enough, especially considering the manufacturers do not tell you about this when you buy the car. Use them for decent journeys and they will be fine, but by using them over short distances, they are not able to go through their regeneration stage, and get slowly clogged up.

It's just something to consider

[Carlos W]

I'd better take my 59 plate mazda 6 and 12 plate Seat Ibiza diesels out for a good long thrash then

[jamesmpi]

BMW diesels come with a reheat function that is designed to burn off soot build ups inside the DPF. I'm sure other manufactures do this too, but nothing beats a good long run ;)

Edited by jamesmpi, 13 December 2012 - 06:03 PM.

[cradley-heathen]

i thought this may divide people a little.

bmw didnt mention this problem with the DPF, but as mentioned i believe they have got this covered with some gadget in the exhaust. but vw did metion it as my friend will be doing around 8k a year. they consider that 8k is the cut off point, any less than this and you are in danger of clogging the filter.

i really think this clogging filter problem is pretty poor, basically if your doing 8k or less they recommend you have a petrol, which i think pretty much means their product is quite flawed. you would think that in 2012 we have got beyond the point of having to thrash your diesel every so often to keep it running sweet, i remember my mate telling me about having to do this in the 70s!

i know its not only vw that refer to one of their cars as a "coupe" for example vauxhall also seem to think their astra is also a coupe. now maybe its just me, but its really not a coupe is it, its a hatch back with slim, triangular windows in the rear quarters,

http://www.motorstow...ll-astra-03.jpg
this is clearly just a hatchback with really small rear windows

http://www.motorstow...es-coupe-04.jpg
thats a coupe! sloped rear windows and a little boot poking out the back.

http://www.pistonhea...54/Rover2-L.jpg
or one of my favorite unloved (and quite rare really) coupes,

[mab01uk]

This video below has been watched (and listened) to with some interest on the New MINI forums as it shows a BMW 1-Series fitted with the new B38 1.5L 3-cylinder TwinPower Turbo Engine which is also to be fitted in transverse fwd form into the next generation Mk3 MINI One and Cooper next year.





This is the all-new, BMW 1.5-litre, three-cylinder turbocharged engine. It will find its way under the bonnet of next year’s new Mk3 MINI.

Codenamed B38 (petrol) and B37 (diesel), it will come in petrol and diesel forms and is expected to be between five and 15 per cent more economical than BMW’s current N20 four-cylinder engines.

Built on an alloy block, the engine gets Valvetronic variable valve timing, a single turbo, 11.0:1 compression ratio and a longer stroke than the N20. It has been engineered as part of BMW future modular engine strategy, which sees all engines based on the same individual 500cc cylinder.

BMW says the petrol engine will develop between 40bhp and 66bhp per cylinder, giving the various versions power outputs of between 120bhp and 200bhp. The torque outputs are expected to be between 44lbft and 66lb ft giving a range of 132lb ft and 198lb ft.

The B37 diesel engine shares up to 60 per cent of its architecture with the petrol engine and can be made on the same production line. The diesel engine output will range between 100bhp and 181bhp and 166lb ft and 221lb ft of torque.

BMW is also preparing the B48, the four-cylinder sister engine of the B38. It is expected to power models including the next-generation MINI Cooper S, to be shown in late 2013. The engine is expected to produce in excess of 220bhp.
BMW three-cylinder engine revealed | Autocar

Edited by mab01uk, 13 December 2012 - 07:50 PM.

[cradley-heathen]

that is a perculiar sounding engine, or certainly on this video it sounds odd anyway.

i had a 3 cylinder suzuki capuccinno a good many years ago, and that too sounded pretty odd, it did however go like the clappers so i didnt mind. i think most tripples osund a bit weird, even in bikes such as the triumph thunderbird.

[jamesmpi]

i thought this may divide people a little.

bmw didnt mention this problem with the DPF, but as mentioned i believe they have got this covered with some gadget in the exhaust. but vw did metion it as my friend will be doing around 8k a year. they consider that 8k is the cut off point, any less than this and you are in danger of clogging the filter.

i really think this clogging filter problem is pretty poor, basically if your doing 8k or less they recommend you have a petrol, which i think pretty much means their product is quite flawed. you would think that in 2012 we have got beyond the point of having to thrash your diesel every so often to keep it running sweet, i remember my mate telling me about having to do this in the 70s!

Unfortunately it's a balancing at that manufacturers are dealing with....

Diesel is and will always be a "dirty" fuel compared to petrol, but there seems to be a significant increase in popularity for diesels due to the torque performance over petrol versions. More and more people are realising that mid range torque is far more useful in modern day driving rather than straight 0-60 times. So choosing a diesel becomes the obvious choice....

But as pointed out by your BMW dealer, if your friend is not going to do high mileage then he may as well stick with a petrol and save money on fuel and garage costs lol.

[mk3 Cooper S]

Check out the new A class.
I hated the other one but the new one I drove yesterday was 1000 x better