31 replies to this topic

[Purple Tom]

Just a couple of questions really.

Do I need an oil cooler? I've been reading on t'internet this afternoon lots of different websites giving advice on the use of oil coolers. My 1293 runs at about 70psi when hot, at anything above 2500 rpm, at idle its at about 50-55psi when hot. I run the Halfords Classic 20W50 oil, and have done with the engine from new (and please no arguments about what oil I should be running - I chose this oil and thats that). I'm a paranoid individual, and if my engine needs an oil cooler then I'm happy to buy and fit one, however if it doesn't then I won't. The other thing I thought about was a thermostatically controlled oil cooler, is this a good idea? Can the thermostats be altered to open at different temps or are they set?

Secondly, Minispares do a plug which screws into the sump (where the oil drain plug usually sits), into which can be screwed the pipe for a mechanical oil temperature gauge. It seems like a good idea, as it means you don't have to drill and tap anywhere else in the gearbox casing, but to me it seems the pipe would be exposed to possible damage from stones etc....has anyone had any experience with these?

Thanks

Tom

[Pavel]

Can't comment on the gearbox oil pipe, but I'd imagine it shouldn't be too bad, if you drive in such conditions where you have to be paranoid abuot big rocks or whatever hitting that area, I'd get a sump guard anyway. Even an alloy one should offer enough protection for that pipe.

From your pressure figures, I'd say you don't need an oil cooler (like the other 95% of cars out there). At idle when hot 55 psi is quite high pressure, and if you were to cool the oil even more it would be even higher. Unless its a highly tuned racing engine, I wouldn't put a cooler, especially since you're not exactly from a hot-climate country.
If you think you need one, either way you'll need to get an oil temp gauge to see what temperatures you're running (I'd get this first and hook it up and just see if you even need a cooler).

[Purple Tom]

Can't comment on the gearbox oil pipe, but I'd imagine it shouldn't be too bad, if you drive in such conditions where you have to be paranoid abuot big rocks or whatever hitting that area, I'd get a sump guard anyway. Even an alloy one should offer enough protection for that pipe.

From your pressure figures, I'd say you don't need an oil cooler (like the other 95% of cars out there). At idle when hot 55 psi is quite high pressure, and if you were to cool the oil even more it would be even higher. Unless its a highly tuned racing engine, I wouldn't put a cooler, especially since you're not exactly from a hot-climate country.
If you think you need one, either way you'll need to get an oil temp gauge to see what temperatures you're running (I'd get this first and hook it up and just see if you even need a cooler).

Thanks, and this sounds a bit topsy-turvy, but if I fitted a sump gaurd it would possibly block a lot of the flow of air to the sump, meaning I might need an oil cooler even more?

I'm just thinking about trackdays and particularly the Nurburgring in the summer - lots of high speed (70mph in my car is 4500rpm) motorway driving in 30deg + temperatures, coupled with high temps on the track might mean a need for an oil cooler.

I think getting an oil temp gauge first is a good plan, seeing what sort of levels the oil is running at, then deciding what to do then!

[Pavel]

Keep in mind too cool an oil will be really thick (especially as you're using 20w50!) and will put more stress on the pump, and probably rob you a bit of power.

[Purple Tom]

aye, have read that too - I wonder if the answer is a thermostat valve for the cooler - you'd think that way it would open when needed, close when not - I'll have to look into it...

[Dan]

If you go with an oil cooler (which it doesn't seem that you need to) definitely get a thermostatic one. The thermostats aren't adjustable but don't need to be since all oil basically likes one temperature. If you fit a sump gaurd it will reduce the cooling effect of the sump fins as you suspect.

As for where to connect an oil temp gauge, the bottom of the sump (where it gets cooled remember) is possibly the most useless place to take this information from. The temperature here will vary a lot more than it does inside the engine partly because of the cooling effect of the sump and also because it's also right under the bypass valve outlet so there's a lot of currents of hot and cold oil there. A temperature reading from here would be more like a transmission oil temperature reading in other cars, which is pretty much irrelevant unless you really stress your gearbox (by towing for example).

The important temperature for engine oil is that of the oil feeding the main bearings, so you need to read the temperature of the oil in the main oil gallery. Remember that the oil pump heats the oil a lot and the filter cools it a bit (since it's hanging out in the air coming through the grille). A good place to fit one is the oil filter head and a spacer to fit behind it is available which is already tapped for the gauge if you don't want to tap your filter head. The other points about using the sump plug version are that you will make it harder to change the oil (especially with a mechanical gauge that you can't just take the wire off of, you'll need to deal with the sensor coil every time) and you loose the magnetic debris trap on the plug.

[Guess-Works.com]

I've been thinking about an oil cooler too, but as yet have not seen or felt any evidence to suggest that one is required, this is on the 1330.

If Water temp is keeping in good shape and oil pressure is good, then it's unlikely you'll need one...

However, fitting a sump guard, will almost certainly proved the need..

Also, I've been thinking about oil temp, I've been thinking about putting a temp sender into the plate at the back of the box on the oil feed pipe ( where some magnetic traps are added ) If you're interested we'll have ago at making one when you come down, and then all you should need is a slightly altered temp guage to read off oil temp...

[Bungle]

any oil cooler fitted to a road mini should be thermostatically controlled

[minidaves]

from experiance no sump gaurd no oil cooler, sump gaurd oil cooler a must and get a thermostaic control one,

i have seen too many gearbox's with blown up bearings when running long drives down the motorway with sumpgaurds to learn povention is better than cure.

dave

[Dog]

"thermostaic control"
Whats that consit of then?

I have just got myself a 8 row cooler (just the cooler), what would make it thermostaic controled? as I would like to fit one to both of my Minis, the turbo and the 1330.

Cheers (sorry for going OT)

[Dan]

Well, what do you think it consists of? It's a valve fitted in the oil cooler supply lines that only opens the supply through the cooler when the oil temperature gets to a certain point, and closes again when it is cold enough. Just like the one for the radiator.

[Purple Tom]

Right, I've ordered an oil cooler, thermostatic plate and the other stuff needed to fit the Mini...will be here in the next few days so I can see what its like to fit, just got to order the hoses with correct fittings (not sure if it will be 90deg, straight ends etc as its a bespoke fitting).

At the moment my oil pressure gauge uses copper pipe - it doesn't look very good as its hard to avoid the nasty bends when you're feeding it through to the dash, and I'm worried it could fracture due to vibration (I know Copper is self-annealing but I still worry!). I've heard its possible to get oil pressure pipe made from a different material, more flexible - it might be polyurethane but I'm not sure - does anyone know where I could get some from?

Also, regarding where to take an oil temperature reading from..... Would the location of the oil pressure switch be a good indicator as to the temperature of the oil?

EDIT - just read Dans comment about the plate available for the filter head - does this fit between the filter head and the block? If so, where can I get one from? Thanks again!

Thanks!

Tom

[Bungle]

At the moment my oil pressure gauge uses copper pipe - it doesn't look very good as its hard to avoid the nasty bends when you're feeding it through to the dash, and I'm worried it could fracture due to vibration (I know Copper is self-annealing but I still worry!). I've heard its possible to get oil pressure pipe made from a different material, more flexible - it might be polyurethane but I'm not sure - does anyone know where I could get some from?

my oil pressure gauge is fed buy a plastic pipe

its a new type white smiths gauge

[rob3]

C-AHT9 = Braided oil pressure pipe, ive had no problems with mine in 2 years.

[Dan]

If you're worried about a copper oil pressure pipe failing due to engine vibration then you can't have formed a spring in it? Works cars had a loose spring formed in the copper line about 2" diameter and about six coils high to absorb any engine movement without overstressing the copper pipe (which will work harden eventually if it's flexing a lot). Just choose somewhere to form it between the block and bulkhead making sure it can't be crushed but does absord movement, and try to form a nice shape into the pipe so it doesn't look messy, it can be done!

There is a nylon pipe available but the only time I've used one it was terrible. The fittings seem to leak a very fine spray of oil all the time, which you can't see as a spray but which builds up over time covering the font of the engine in oil. The braided line is probably fine though.

As for the block adaptor, yes that's how it fits. I can't remember who makes them though! I know that's not much help, they were advertised in Minimag years ago. I'll try to find out for you.