31 replies to this topic

[AGoaty]

I have 65mm ones on the back of my Mini. These have extended studs and different PCD for Rover/MG wheels.

They have done around 2000 miles so far and haven't caused any wheel bearing damage.



As long as the studs are long enough to hold the wheel safely I don't think the sizes talked about will cause any issues.

[Tamworthbay]

I have 65mm ones on the back of my Mini. These have extended studs and different PCD for Rover/MG wheels.

They have done around 2000 miles so far and haven't caused any wheel bearing damage.



As long as the studs are long enough to hold the wheel safely I don't think the sizes talked about will cause any issues.

I find that pic truly scary. I followed my mate in his 1275gt with 1inch spacers when the rear wheel bearing collapsed suddenly, it was not a pretty sight. The car was written off and very nearly rolled. Whether is was due to the spacer it is impossible to tell but I wouldn't fit them. I suppose if the car is for looks and driven very gently you may be ok. Good luck.

[Midas Mk1]

If you think the ones above a wide, check out an episode of Chop Shop

[ginsters]

Its probably been answered on here before I suspect. I guess as long as you fit new wheel studs that are as long as the spacer width. Fitting spacers will extend the track width of the car, so going beyond what the car was designed for will put extra stress on the bit its attached to, the wheel bearing will suffer mostly here I guess.

Why are you going to use spacers? Is it to extend the wheel so it fits the wheel arch better for look? Or are you trying to clear a new/bigger brake caliper? You may have to nibble some metal off the front wheel arch if you extend too far on already wide wheels. Or raise the suspension up / combination of both.

I used wheel spacers on my 4.5 * 10 wheels to clear the caliper. They are hub centric and are machined so the sleeved wheel nut locates into them, for maximum thread grip. The wheels/spaces and sleeved nuts come as a set.

are the spacers custom or off the shelf?

[Bungle]

I have 65mm ones on the back of my Mini. These have extended studs and different PCD for Rover/MG wheels.

They have done around 2000 miles so far and haven't caused any wheel bearing damage.



As long as the studs are long enough to hold the wheel safely I don't think the sizes talked about will cause any issues.

but the wheels in your avatar look to be very inset

if you look a few posts back you will see that having wheels with a big inset brings the centre line of the wheels back to where they should be

try running those spacers with a deep dish wheel and see if you start having problems

[ibrooks]

I have 65mm ones on the back of my Mini. These have extended studs and different PCD for Rover/MG wheels.

They have done around 2000 miles so far and haven't caused any wheel bearing damage.



As long as the studs are long enough to hold the wheel safely I don't think the sizes talked about will cause any issues.

I find that pic truly scary. I followed my mate in his 1275gt with 1inch spacers when the rear wheel bearing collapsed suddenly, it was not a pretty sight. The car was written off and very nearly rolled. Whether is was due to the spacer it is impossible to tell but I wouldn't fit them. I suppose if the car is for looks and driven very gently you may be ok. Good luck.

I'd dearly love to know how a Mini rear wheel bearing can "collapse". Even if it did fail catastrophicaly it should only have locked a rear wheel - is this what actually happened or did the wheel part company with the car? Wheel bearings also don't fail suddenly - they announce their problems long in advance of actually "failing"

As for the initial question of "are spacers safe" it's the same as asking if cars are safe. Good quality ones used properly are perfectly safe - rubbish used in an unsafe way can kill you.

Iain

[Tamworthbay]

I have 65mm ones on the back of my Mini. These have extended studs and different PCD for Rover/MG wheels.

They have done around 2000 miles so far and haven't caused any wheel bearing damage.



As long as the studs are long enough to hold the wheel safely I don't think the sizes talked about will cause any issues.

I find that pic truly scary. I followed my mate in his 1275gt with 1inch spacers when the rear wheel bearing collapsed suddenly, it was not a pretty sight. The car was written off and very nearly rolled. Whether is was due to the spacer it is impossible to tell but I wouldn't fit them. I suppose if the car is for looks and driven very gently you may be ok. Good luck.

I'd dearly love to know how a Mini rear wheel bearing can "collapse". Even if it did fail catastrophicaly it should only have locked a rear wheel - is this what actually happened or did the wheel part company with the car? Wheel bearings also don't fail suddenly - they announce their problems long in advance of actually "failing"

As for the initial question of "are spacers safe" it's the same as asking if cars are safe. Good quality ones used properly are perfectly safe - rubbish used in an unsafe way can kill you.

Iain

Sorry to correct you, but they can and do fail suddenly. I was in the car the day before sat in the rear seat and there was no noise at all. The car had only done about 10miles more when it went, the rear wheel tucked up into the arch and locked, he spun until it hit a bank and went on two wheels. I was convinced he was going over but it slammed back down. We stripped it out and the outer race was knackered and the ball bearings were nowhere to be seen. The quality of the spacer does not affect the extra load on the bearings- it is purely down to the distances involved, force x distance. The quality of the spacer affects stud failure which is another issue altogether. It's each to their own, after all we wouldn't drive minis if safety was our only concern, but personally I don't see any point in increasing loading in a crucial part for no benefit other than aesthetics.

[AGoaty]

The Watson's spacers used in my photo are to convert Mini PCD and wheels to Metro wheels. They are part of a conversion kit to fit K series engine into a Mini. They are a bought item, not home made.Watson's are a rallying company who I'm sure would not be selling loads of these if they were unsafe. As stated, the Metro wheels do not have a dish to them so the offset of them is small. Using deep dished alloys would make the load even worse.

I personally don't think that spacers cause early failure of the wheel bearings I have had lots of Mini's with spacers.

That said, wheel bearings do not last forever, even without spacers....

[ibrooks]

Sorry to correct you, but they can and do fail suddenly. I was in the car the day before sat in the rear seat and there was no noise at all. The car had only done about 10miles more when it went, the rear wheel tucked up into the arch and locked, he spun until it hit a bank and went on two wheels. I was convinced he was going over but it slammed back down. We stripped it out and the outer race was knackered and the ball bearings were nowhere to be seen. The quality of the spacer does not affect the extra load on the bearings- it is purely down to the distances involved, force x distance. The quality of the spacer affects stud failure which is another issue altogether. It's each to their own, after all we wouldn't drive minis if safety was our only concern, but personally I don't see any point in increasing loading in a crucial part for no benefit other than aesthetics.

For the wheel to "tuck up into the arch" more than a bearing would need to fail. Maybe if the stub axle failed, the radius arm pin, the radius arm itself but not just the bearing.

Ball bearings? So he had also fitted incorrect parts?

Assuming you just used the wrong term and meant the rollers - they did not disappear quietly in 10 miles. They make a godawful noise as they chew the cage up and long before you get to this point you will notice the bearing wearing and needing adjusting more frequently - or is that another thing that he never checked on his regular maintenance schedule? (or I'm betting even when he fitted the spacers).

And it's already been mentioned above that if the spacers are being used to CORRECT the offset of a wheel that for some reason is different to what the suspension is designed for then the forces involved are EXACTLY the same as if standard wheels are fitted with no spacers.

The amount of rubbish that people spout about spacers never ceases to amaze me on here.

[maccers]

@ginsters - these were off the shelf from Midland Wheels and come as part of the wheel/tyre package. You can probably buy just the spacers, but the ones I have would need to be used with sleeved wheel studs, again they came with the whole package.

[scotsco]

Wow, thanks for all these replies. I have decided against the big spacers and just brought some 3/8 spacers to ensure my wheels fit over my calipers correctly.
thank you all.

[Tamworthbay]

Sorry to correct you, but they can and do fail suddenly. I was in the car the day before sat in the rear seat and there was no noise at all. The car had only done about 10miles more when it went, the rear wheel tucked up into the arch and locked, he spun until it hit a bank and went on two wheels. I was convinced he was going over but it slammed back down. We stripped it out and the outer race was knackered and the ball bearings were nowhere to be seen. The quality of the spacer does not affect the extra load on the bearings- it is purely down to the distances involved, force x distance. The quality of the spacer affects stud failure which is another issue altogether. It's each to their own, after all we wouldn't drive minis if safety was our only concern, but personally I don't see any point in increasing loading in a crucial part for no benefit other than aesthetics.

For the wheel to "tuck up into the arch" more than a bearing would need to fail. Maybe if the stub axle failed, the radius arm pin, the radius arm itself but not just the bearing.

Ball bearings? So he had also fitted incorrect parts?

Assuming you just used the wrong term and meant the rollers - they did not disappear quietly in 10 miles. They make a godawful noise as they chew the cage up and long before you get to this point you will notice the bearing wearing and needing adjusting more frequently - or is that another thing that he never checked on his regular maintenance schedule? (or I'm betting even when he fitted the spacers).

And it's already been mentioned above that if the spacers are being used to CORRECT the offset of a wheel that for some reason is different to what the suspension is designed for then the forces involved are EXACTLY the same as if standard wheels are fitted with no spacers.

The amount of rubbish that people spout about spacers never ceases to amaze me on here.

I am amazed by the rubbish people spout, such as thinking they know everything and can comment on events where they weren't even there. The power to see into the past just based on a post, truly amazing! The car was very well maintained, I teach motor vehicle studies and he worked for Lola cars LTD. Bearings fail in different ways dependant of the failure, I won't bore you with the details as you know everything so it wouldn't be worth wasting your time, I'll assume you forgot that bit in god school. The event took place as descibed, no failure of radius arm of part thereof, or any other suspension part. the wheel tucked under and locked. have you ever tried moving a rear wheelmaround without rollers and cage in the bearing? 'More than a bearing to fail' , er wrong, there was nothing else, try it you will be amazed how much movement there is. You state ONE possible use which makes little difference, but there are LOADS of ones that DO make a difference. My original comment was regarding a spacer that was beyond that used to correct offset, my friends car was also beyond offset correction. I wouldn't use them as I said. The amount of rubbish some people spout about how safe spacers are never ceases to amaze me on here.

[tiger99]

An all too common failure mode for wheel bearings is that they start to run hot, so hot in fact that the stub axle loses all its strength and shears off. Minis are no more or less prone to that than any other car, and it happens on fronts too. It also happens on other things, such as trains, fortunately very rarely as there is a tight maintenance regime. Now if your bearing loads put you into the region where that might happen, the arrangement is unsafe.

Note that I said the arrangement, the spacer itself is not unsafe, as it can't fail, being clamped between the wheel and the hub. What can fail is other bits around it like studs, bearings and stub axles.

[AVV IT]

Just to add that I've had personal experience of a wheel bearing failing suddenly and without warning. In my case it was a front wheel bearing, and at the time the car was maintained by a reputable garage that only used genuine parts. Fortunately it was a near side wheel that locked up at 30mph, sending me skidding into the side of a quiet road. Had it been at higher speed, or had it been the offside front that had gone and sent me skidding into the path of oncoming traffic, then it could have been much worse.

There was absolutely no warning, none at all, just a loud clunk followed by the car lurching violently to the side of the road. The recovery guy was convinced that it was a brake problem and that it couldn't have been a wheel bearing as there was no pre-warning. The garage could not believe that there wasn't any pre-warning either, they even went so far as to suggest that I must have had the stereo turned up too loud and drowned all the pre-warning noise out, that is until they noticed that I didn't actually have a stereo fitted.

So whilst I'm aware that generally there will be a noticeable pre-warning noise before a wheel bearing fails, it's clearly not always the case, all of the time.

Edited by AVV IT, 12 December 2012 - 08:39 PM.

[tiger99]

Yes, I for one believe you, as it is known that a failed cage may allow the rollers to pile up on one side and jam completely, amongst other possibilities, but fortunately it is quite rare with bearings from a reputable manufacturer. I have known maybe two or three bearings, only one on a Mini, to fail that way, but fortunately it was not a complete jam.

A failed CV can also jam at an angle, and you can imagine what that will do! I saw a not terribly old (no rust, and you probably know how bad they were) 1100 go carreering across the road and hit a lamp post once, front wheel wobbling grotesquely, as nothing like a locked CV, or very bent shaft, could cause. The police and ambulance were on the scene very quickly, and the driver, who was walking but unsteadily, was taken to hospital. After they had gone I had a look, and the huge forces exerted by the locked CV had seperated the top ball joint and the track rod end. They had not broken the way they do when wrongly fitted on Minis, they had deformed plastically and the balls had pulled right out of the joints.

Later on I had a very nasty event with a CV on a Talbot Express van. It never locked, but very suddenly caused a violent shuddering and pull to the left, which took all my strength to control. The AA trailered it to its destination eventually, and I took it apart. As suspected, a broken cage, so the balls were not confined to one plane bisecting the shaft angles as they should be, and in that condition locking is possible.