17 replies to this topic

[Scoop77]

I've had a flick through the suspension threads which seem dominated by coil over discussions but little on good geo' settings. I've seen that adjustable arms are available for the front but how do you achieve negative camber and toe in for the rear?
I don't want to go crazy and I'm happy with standard ride height etc I just want a little of both.
Are there any generally regarded 'good' set ups?
Cheers.

[Guess-Works.com]

You can buy adjustable brackets for the rear which replace the fixed brackets which are mounted to the subframe and attach the radius arm..

You can buy those which are only camber adjustable, and those which are both camber and toe.... however as a mini in standard configuration naturally has toe in at the rear, you can use spacers between the bracket and subframe to adjust this without the need for dual adjustable brackets...

As for what geometry setup is best then that all depends on what you are doing and also will need specialist set up..

Which is were I would suggest you talk to 'icklemini'

[Cooperman]

Never used adjustable rear brackets myself.
I adjust the rear settings by filing the hole in the standard brackets or shimming behind the brackets as appropriate to give 1 mm to 2 mm toe-in and by filing the hole upwards to give zero to 0.5 degrees negative camber. Then wedge the suspension into place firmly and weld a large washer onto the bracket to hold the setting.
At the same time check the front-to-rear alignment. I use the old-fashioned method using two lengths of straight timber, 2" x 2", although I know I shall be told how a 4-way laser setter is the only proper way. How do you think we did it in the 60's? This was the only way and it still works fine.

[Yoda]

I just bought a laser tracking checker and now i wonder why i never bought one earlier, it makes setting up the rear as easy as the front. Fantastic bit of kit!

As has been said by Guess-works already, if you dont have the kit, get it set up by a professional, or an enthusiast who has the kit AND knows how to use it properly.

[Guess-Works.com]

Never used adjustable rear brackets myself.
I adjust the rear settings by filing the hole in the standard brackets or shimming behind the brackets as appropriate to give 1 mm to 2 mm toe-in and by filing the hole upwards to give zero to 0.5 degrees negative camber. Then wedge the suspension into place firmly and weld a large washer onto the bracket to hold the setting.
At the same time check the front-to-rear alignment. I use the old-fashioned method using two lengths of straight timber, 2" x 2", although I know I shall be told how a 4-way laser setter is the only proper way. How do you think we did it in the 60's? This was the only way and it still works fine.

or a piece of string around all four wheels...

to "GET THE WHEELS IN LINE"

[Yoda]

Been there, been doing that for years! I even have a centre line drawn on my workshop floor!

Or the two bits of 2 x 2 cable tied to the wheels and a tape measure can be used to check tracking as well as alignment.

I have been using old school methods since the sixty's, as has cooperman with no ill effect, but i just find this new toy so simple and quick to use, i wonder if we should all invest in one.

I still use many old school methods for diagnosis too, My son has recently had a three week issue trying to find a problem with his turbo conversion after a massive accidental overboost. I popped out oto him last night with a bit of rubber hose and he looked at me in disgust, then withing seconds, i found the problem. it was a leaky gasket at the plenum.

For those of you wanting to know what the hose was for, Ask Cooperman.

Edited by Yoda, 08 December 2012 - 11:22 AM.

[Yoda]

Oh, and an even sillier sounding diagnosis tool is an eighteen inch large flat bladed screwdriver that you stick in your ear!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually you hold it on the bone just in front of yer lughole to be precice

Edited by Yoda, 08 December 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[Cooperman]

Don't decry the old methods. They were developed by real craftsmen who had years of experience and had done the old 5-year apprenticeships. I learned about settings, front-to-back and rear toe-in and camber, from a guy who had a body repair shop and he used lengths of timber, straight bits of steel angle, tape measure and rectangular pieces of plywood. This was not only on Minis, but on everything including Jags, Healeys, etc.
If you have 4-way laser kit then, of course, use it. However, you can set a Mini suspension accurately without it - it just takes a lot more effort.

[Yoda]

here is a good read http://ralphhosier.w...y-using-string/

[The Matt]

I'm in the same position. I always tracked my car the old school way, but I bought a Track-rite laser kit for £70 and it just makes things quicker.

For reference, my Mini is running 0.5º toe in at the rear and 0.5º negative camber. The negative camber is probably OTT. Vertical is best. I wouldn't set rear track as neutral nor toe-out unless I was a decent driver (I'm really not a good track driver). But as GW said it's all down to the car....and the application...and the driver.

The rear tracking is slightly trickier to set than the front. You're setting each wheel relative to the centerline rather than just relative to the opposite wheel. There seems to be some debate as to whether to use the centerline of the rear subframe or the centerline of the shell. to be honest I kinda did both and measured centre of the front subby, centre of the front axle and centre of the rear subframe's front and rear crossmembers. It's no real surprise that those lines didn't all perfectly coincide.

At the risk of hi-jacking I'd like to understand which centerline to use.

[The Matt]

As for recommendations I would say that the only rear tracking/camber brackets I would get are KAD ones. I am afraid I wasn't happy with the ones I bought from elsewhere.

[Yoda]

I would suggest using the centre line of the car, but i would also match the subframe to this line. Once that is done, you then make sure the car and front subby is square too. That way four wheel alignment is easy. You can move the mounts for the radius arms to line up the rear with a little ingenuity and welding etc. Modern aftermarket subframes can be pretty badly off centre.

[Cooperman]

My next-door-neighbour's son is doing a degree in Automotive Engineering with Motorsport at the Uni. of Herts (Hatfield Tech. in my day!) and they use string and straight edges to measure suspension settings. It is felt necessary that they learn from basics how to do it.

[Yoda]

Too right! and that is why my son started out his driving experience with a Mini.

Edited by Yoda, 08 December 2012 - 04:35 PM.

[smartie93]

We use set squares, straight edges, string and plumb-bobs to map suspension connection points not because its basic but because its one of the easiest and quickest ways to do so... we then plug this into a computer and that helps us decide the best set up based on roll and pitch center heights and CG etc best of both worlds :)