1843 replies to this topic

[freshairmini]

Liking the genesis stuff!! They will sound brilliant, good choice!

[Petrol]

Liking the genesis stuff!! They will sound brilliant, good choice!

 

I don't know much about ICE but wanted a quality sounding system. I asked in the ICE section on this forum and bought what was recommended

 

OS Inner wing has split, pretty sure I have seen this before

 

 

From the other side you can see it has a few layers in this area. It's a bit complicated so hopefully I can post up how it all goes back together. Where the stiffener plate finishes is where the inner wing has cracked

 

 

I removed the stiffener along with the inner wing to X member brace. Then ground out the stitch welds to split them

 

 

The end of the X member brace is very close to the stiffener, this will create a lot of force and is probably why the single skin section of the inner wing failed. I made a new stiffener but quite a bit wider than the original. This will spread the load over a greater area and should prevent the inner wing from splitting again

 

 

Pete

Edited by Petrol, 13 June 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[Petrol]

Bit more info in case it's useful to anyone

 

This is the original setup. The X member brace finishes very close to the inner wing stiffener

 

 

Any force from the X member will be concentrated on this area and since there's only about an 8mm distance to the stiffener, the whole load will end up on the single skin inner wing. Not ideal.

 

This is the new stiffener

 

 

By extending it further forwards it will spread the load over a greater distance rather than concentrating it one place. It will also reduce the leverage on the inner wing from the X member

 

Hoped that made sense and was helpful

 

Pete

Edited by Petrol, 13 June 2013 - 10:34 PM.

[Petrol]

I struggled how the X member / inner wing went together when I did the other side. It's a bit tricky to get all the welds in the right places so here's how it goes.

 

 

Inner wing rot cut out. Pic also shows flanges on the X member that need welding

 

 

 

Stiffener goes here

 

 

 

Then the inner wing, in this case a repair

 

 

Finally the X member to inner wing brace

 

 

 

If you see a hole like this when you remove the shock mount

 

 

Both skins have rotted through.

 

Pete

 

[Archived4]

Wow, ace work!
Keep the updates coming!

[Petrol]

Thanks and will do.

 

I’ve noticed a few people talking about best protection for underneath / box sections. I did quite a lot of research into this and though it worth passing on some info.

Underneath – Floor pan wheel arches

The best primer to use is zinc primer especially on original steel. I’m using the “get rid of all the rust / carbon” method. Whilst rust converters may work, if they don’t do the job for whatever reason and this could be poor product, badly applied or even wrong conditions (too cold / too damp) then it’s just gonna come back. I can’t see the point in re-fabricating a shell and running that risk.

Zinc primer works by sacrificial method, when you get 2 dissimilar metals in contact – steel and zinc, it creates a tiny electrical charge. This charge prevents the steel from rusting at the expense of the zinc. In order for it to work properly, you need a good electrical contact between the steel and paint. This means painting zinc on top of rust converters / killers is pointless as the converter will act as an electrical insulator.

The downside to any zinc paint is it’s soft – zinc is a soft metal. As a result it offers little impact resistance. For best protection, a good lashing of 2K paint on top of the zinc will offer this protection. For the ultimate protection a coat of shutz / underbody sealant on top of the 2k paint is the best bet. You can of course shutz straight on top of the zinc.

Some notes on underbody sealant

As with any product, you get what you pay for and some of them are not very good. Tetrosyl is one example as it peels - you might as well spray on emulsion. U-Pol stuff isn’t much better but the only brand I ever use is 3M.
For those wanting a body colour finish underneath, the product to use is called stone chip. This is very similar to underbody sealant but can be over painted.
Also remember not to apply underbody sealant on areas of the shell where anything bolts onto it. These are best masked up before the underbody sealant is applied.

Box sections

This one is seriously complicated as it involves lots of seams that are difficult to penetrate. This leads me on very nicely to waxoyl. Yep, I used it for a number of years but when you think about it, how can it penetrate seams? It’s just too thick. Thin it down? That doesn’t work either as it still doesn’t penetrate em. Add to much white spirit and it will lose its properties. Heat it up? Well it comes out of the gun but as soon as it hits cold steel it thickens up again. Penetration? no way.

I posted up some pics on page 6 of this thread and mentioned surface tension, the other problem with waxoyl is no matter what you do, you can’t get a good finish. Think of a box section coated in waxoyl, the finish will be poor and will harbour moisture as it can’t run out. Box sections have very little ventilation so any moisture in there will evaporate creating a 100% humidity situation. As temps cool it will condense and puddle again. I guess you get the picture.

Alternatives and best protection

The best protection inside of box sections is zinc primer followed by bilt hamber dynax. Dynax is thin enough to penetrate seams and flow out to a smooth finish as can be seen on the pics on page 6. Also, when it’s applied it bubbles. This bubbling allows it to move and penetrate seams.

If you notice on this pic

 

 

I didn’t spray a top coat or seam seal the inner sill to door step. The reason for this is that the inhibitors in Dynax are drawn to metals. The zinc primer can be considered as metal and a top coat would have made the attraction weaker. Dynax will also penetrate the seam along the door seal lip.

Couple of notes on hammerite paint
I wouldn’t use original hammerite on anything, the hammer finish leaves very little paint thickness
I also wouldn’t even use the smooth stuff on anything shell related as most other products react with it. It’s OK for painting brackets and parts for a quick fix.


I appreciate everyone has their favourite way of doing things. I have tested all of these products / techniques and they work long term.

Hope that was useful and thanks for looking

Pete




 


 

 

[Archived4]

Have you ever thought of using "Corrosionschutzfett?"

This has been to test for absolutely years, and is apparently the best of the best. Although applying it is a pita..

[Petrol]

Have you ever thought of using "Corrosionschutzfett?"

This has been to test for absolutely years, and is apparently the best of the best. Although applying it is a pita..

 

Yes, I did consider it but it needs to be heated to 120C before it's applied. I was worried about seam penetration, like waxoyl it will thicken as soon as it hits a cool surface. Classics monthly did a test on various box section treatments and left the plates 4M up exposed to the weather. I do know that Dynax S-50 doesn't have UV stabilizers in it, you don't get much UV inside of box sections So IMO the test was a bit flawed.

 

I bought some POR 15 to try and didn't particular like it, again just personal preference.

I have used 2K epoxy paint before and it's probably the best paint as far as chip resistance goes

 

Pete

[miniBrain]

"I have used 2K epoxy paint before and it's probably the best paint as far as chip resistance goes"

 

Agree 100% with this mate. It also adheres very well to bare metal and/or old prepared paint. There's a long term rust test published in last month's Classics and epoxy mastic came out on top for exterior coating. POR 15 did pretty poorly.

 

Also agree about your Hammerite comments. Its overpriced and reacts badly to solvent based products. I use a similar alkyd-based product from Aldi - £3.99 per Litre (IIRC) - but only on removable components - suspension, etc. Never on bodywork.

 

One point about Waxyoil, I had an MGB once that was Waxyoiled and found some rust underneath it. It seemed to harden and flake then allow moisture to be trapped underneath.

 

On my current project (TR7) I'll be using epoxy mastic as a primer on the floors etc. Then Dinitrol 3125/4941 in cavities/seams and underseal.

 

Bob

[Petrol]

On my current project (TR7) I'll be using epoxy mastic as a primer on the floors etc. Then Dinitrol 3125/4941 in cavities/seams and underseal.

 

Bob

 

That epoxy mastic sure is good stuff. I de-chromed some trim on an Opel Ascona and sprayed them with it, had the car years and never had a problem. When I was choosing which box section wax to use on my last project, Dinitrol was my 2nd choice

 

I'm finding this shell refurb interesting since the car is unmolested. All it's had is a NS door skin and some plates on the original sills. I'm finding seam sealer over bare metal and seam sealer over e coat. Bit confusing to me and makes me wonder if these shells were dipped at all. I would love to have a chat with a techie person who worked on the shell assembly / paint production line.

 

As for progress, I have prepped the OS inner wing and sprayed this lot with weld through primer

 

 

 

Pete

[chrisj]

Pete,

I've spent the last few evenings reading through this project thread, I've got to say considering you had little experience in the welding department your doing a fantastic job.

I think what sets this project apart from a lot is the attention to detail, there are very few people who would go to the extent you have to rid a shell of rust.

My 90 is in a catastrophic state and to see a member like yourself share the tips and know how as you have is fantastic and although I have restored cars before and had good results that I've been very happy with, there are certainly a lot of things I have learned from this thread so thank you for sharing!

I look forward to reading the updates.

Chris

[Petrol]

Hi Chris,

 

Thanks for your kind words. I'm attempting to do it once but do it right as far as addressing the rust problems. I guess only time will tell if it works. I do however have a couple of test pieces outside, a welded seam that I have spayed Dynax in and a rusty plate sprayed with Electrox. These have been outside about 8 months now and so far so good. I'm only too happy to share the tips and tricks I have picked up over the years, most of them I got from car forums.

 

The sports pack arches have seen better days, many of the studs are corroded and some have sheared

 

 

This is one of the better studs, it only has a thread length of 4mm

 

 

Decided to do something a bit more substantial so I drilled and tapped them M6 but went more or less right through

 

 

I glued the stainless studs in with polyester resin

 

 

Drilling the hole right through enabled complete coverage of the resin

 

 

Skim of filler

 

 

Also finished off the OS inner wing

 

 

I extended the stiffener on this side and the inner wing is deffo more rigid

 

 

 

Pete

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RawlinsGTR]

Nice work Pete,

 

Just out of interest - how are you planning on holding the studs in to the bodywork?

 

Simon

[freshairmini]

Nice work Pete,

 

Just out of interest - how are you planning on holding the studs in to the bodywork?

 

Simon

 I'd imagine nuts. 

[Petrol]

Nuts indeed, but will use stainless nylocs. I will also be bonding them on which will save me the hassle of welding a lip on the front wings. The arch will provide the strength.

 

Pete