25 replies to this topic

[Bungle]

if you paid to get your mini through type approval like the car manufactures it would go through, other wise you have to follow the guide lines of construction and use regs where it will fail

[Ethel]

Tiger's right, there is a prescribed minimum distance between brake/tail & foglights, Mini light clusters don't allow it. It's sensible as fogs are as bright as brake lights it could make it difficult to see the brake lights go on.

You can use front fogs with just sidelights, they are intended to reduce reflected glare off the fog, so keeping your headlights on negates the effect somewhat - though there are rules about how far they can be from the side of the car. You could get away with putting a fog light in the bottom of the rear window, and also use it as a high level brake light without breaking the regulations.

People using rear fog lights when it isn't foggy is one of my pet hates too. The regulations do say they should only be used is visibility is less than 100m. I turn mine off if the traffic is close enough to see me without it.

[jimnali]

I have two pet hates: drivers who use their front fogs as running lights when there is no fog, and drivers who refuse to put their headlight lights on unless it is pitch dark.

[sonikk4]

Tiger's right, there is a prescribed minimum distance between brake/tail & foglights, Mini light clusters don't allow it. It's sensible as fogs are as bright as brake lights it could make it difficult to see the brake lights go on.

You can use front fogs with just sidelights, they are intended to reduce reflected glare off the fog, so keeping your headlights on negates the effect somewhat - though there are rules about how far they can be from the side of the car. You could get away with putting a fog light in the bottom of the rear window, and also use it as a high level brake light without breaking the regulations.

People using rear fog lights when it isn't foggy is one of my pet hates too. The regulations do say they should only be used is visibility is less than 100m. I turn mine off if the traffic is close enough to see me without it.

That's fair enough what yourself and Bungle has said, i can see why the lad did what he did as his thought process was the same as mine with regards to integrated fog lights within modern clusters.

If i remember right in Germany its against the law to have your fogs on when its not foggy and its a spot fine. The same applies if you have them fitted and don't use them in foggy conditions.
Bring that here and that will stop the chavs and retards from using them in the wrong conditions.

[AVV IT]

NO! That is illegal and a certain MOT failure. There is a prescribed minimum distance between the rear for light and brake light, and you can't achieve that in the cluster, unfortunately.

Is that because its a modification Tiger?? the reason i'm saying this is a lot of modern cars have their fog lights within the cluster which in effect is what this is mirroring. If its not illegal then its not a bad idea.

It's illegal because it's against construction and use regs for a rear fog lamp to be within 100mm of a brake light. (Which the reverse lamp within a mini cluster is). Most modern cars do have the fog lamp within the tail light cluster, but it is above the prescribed distance away from any brake lamp, so is within construction and use regs. That said, there are some modern production cars (particularly French models) that are not actually in accordance with the regs! But then there's a big difference between having non conforming lamps that were standard fitment at the factory and actually making an illegal modification to the lamps on your car.

The other issue is that a rear fog lamp has a mirrored reflector behind the bulb to reflect the light emitted and make it brighter than the tail and brake lamps. Fitting a red bulb, or a red lens to a classic mini reverse lamp, will not therefore produce a light that is bright enough to be a fog lamp as the standard reverse lamp does not contain the required mirrored reflector.

The reverse lamp conversion is unlikely to fail an MOT though, because the MOT test really only checks the presence and operation of the lamp, and doesn't really address it's conformity to construction and use regs. The fact that it doesn't get picked up at MOT is probably why it's such a common classic mini mod and why so many mini owners think it's OK to do.

Even though you probably would get through an MOT with one, I wouldn't fancy your chances of an insurance pay out, should you be struck from the rear in the fog and the respective insurers discover that you were using an illegal fog lamp that wasn't actually bright enough. Not only that, a rear fog lamp is after all a safety device designed to stop you being rear ended in the fog, so not really something you would want to modify and make less effective, regardless of the legalities and chances of getting away with it.

Edited by AVV IT, 15 October 2012 - 03:05 PM.

[spiggy]

I'm now now also, )randomly) having a problem with the rear fog. O light on the switch, power at bulb end and bulb light all cleaned and working, checked it by wiring it directly to the battery. Are the fogs wired via the fuse box? (4 fuse type) Bloody nuisance this is, all i need for the mot as well.

[AVV IT]

Are the fogs wired via the fuse box? (4 fuse type)

Check the in line fuses behind the carb/ air filter, I believe that one of these is the rear fog lamp circuit

[spiggy]

I think so, Old 4 fue box an all that. I have been fudging around that area and cleaned some spades up , replacing one that broke up through corrosion. Not sure which one is for the fogs tho,I'm poor with wiring diagrams. There is no light showing on the switch which would suggest no power coming? Doing my head in........... now the git won't start either!

[tiger99]

In a case like that, the best way to find out what is what is to get out the Haynes manual, look at the wiring diagram which is closest to your exact model (there are far too many variants for them all to be provided) and identify the colours of the relevant wires, which are consistent across the entire Mini range. That is actually much quicker than asking a question on this forum and waiting for replies.

However, to show you how the colour system works, I will tell you what to expect to find. The arrangement of fuses differs, but on earlier models there will always be a fuse fed from the "red" circuit (side/tail lights from the light switch). The outgoing colour from that fuse is red/green, and it feeds the rear fog light switch, from where red/yellow goes to the warning lamp (if seperate from the switch) and the lamp itself, which earths through a black wire.

On later models the fuse is fed by a blue wire (headlights from light switch) from where the rear fog switch is fed by a blue/yellow wire, then as above.

Basically, red = side/tail lights. Red + colour = something fed from light circuit.
Blue = headlights, blue + colour = something fed from headlight circuit, e.g. blue/white = main beam, blue/red = dip
White = ignition switch controlled supply, white + colour = something derived from that, e.g. white/black is from coil to distributor.
Brown = permanently live, and of course things fed by it via switches would be brown+colour
Purple comes from brown, via a fuse, and is for things that need to work with ignition on or off, e.g. horn.
Green comes from white via a fuse and is for things that are only needed with ignition on.

Look at the diagrams, make a list of the colours you find, and you will soon get used to finding your way around by all the various colours which are used.

[AVV IT]

Basically, red = side/tail lights. Red + colour = something fed from light circuit.
Blue = headlights, blue + colour = something fed from headlight circuit, e.g. blue/white = main beam, blue/red = dip
White = ignition switch controlled supply, white + colour = something derived from that, e.g. white/black is from coil to distributor.
Brown = permanently live, and of course things fed by it via switches would be brown+colour
Purple comes from brown, via a fuse, and is for things that need to work with ignition on or off, e.g. horn.
Green comes from white via a fuse and is for things that are only needed with ignition on.

doh!!!

I can't believe that I've spent all these years fiddling with classic mini wiring and it never occurred to me that there was actually a system to the colour of the wiring!

Suddenly it all becomes clear!!

[tiger99]

I am glad to have helped.