16 replies to this topic

[UBSTANKN]

I searched and read a ton of threads on replacing the inner CV boot, but they all left me with my head spinning. I'm hoping for a little clarification.

The good news is I already have the hub off the car. The rest of the steps confuse me a little bit. Most people seem to recommend removing the drive shaft from the car to replace the rear boot. Is there a good way to do it with the shaft on the car without removing the outer CV and boot (I don't want to risk damaging those)? If I need to remove the drive shaft, do I have the drain the oil?

So for the only thing I've walked away knowing is that I have to put the inner boot on inside out because the outer edge of the boot is secured using a zip tie on the inside of the boot. The boot is then flipped right way around and secured that way.

Thanks for the advice

-Mike

[Ethel]

Yes you'd have to drain the oil. Personally I'd remove the complete shaft (especially,if it's on disc brakes) it'll be a messier & more awkward job on the car. The inner "pot joint" will fall to pieces with the boot removed, but you still need to knock the inner part off the shaft to get the boot on. It's almost certainly full of runny goop, and the balls often fall out.

Have a close look at the outer boots, could save you taking it to bits again.

[UBSTANKN]

Yes you'd have to drain the oil. Personally I'd remove the complete shaft (especially,if it's on disc brakes) it'll be a messier & more awkward job on the car. The inner "pot joint" will fall to pieces with the boot removed, but you still need to knock the inner part off the shaft to get the boot on. It's almost certainly full of runny goop, and the balls often fall out.

Have a close look at the outer boots, could save you taking it to bits again.

Ugh. This is not good news. I was reading in a couple other threads that it was possible to remove the shaft and leave the pot joint in place. There seems to be lots of conflicting information regarding the pot joint. Some threads seem to indicate the pot joint must be removed and will fall out with the drive shaft. Others seem to indicate the shaft and the pot joint can be pulled separately. I don't mind draining the oil just to ensure that I don't end up with a big oily mess in my garage.

What is holding the drive shaft to the pot joint besides the ring that secures the CV boot?

-Mike

[UBSTANKN]

Well after reading all the threads and knowing full well that the inner and outer parts of the CV are not supposed to separate, it really seemed like the only option. None of the balls fell out of the cage so they all seem to be in good shape. I also made sure to mark the direction the shaft was in when I removed it and which ball joint corresponded to that position so when it comes time to reassemble everything I can put it all back the way it was.

How do I remove the the inner part of the CV from the drive shaft? Is it really as simple as just whacking it off the end? And then how do you put it back on again and make sure that it is properly secured? Thanks for the advice. This is basically the last step in my battle over the last 5 months to get it back on the road!

-Mike

[xrocketengineer]

The Inner part of the CV joint is supposed to come off the axle by knocking it off. There is a Rover tool that attaches to the the grooves of the axle and with two screws and half a cylinder pushes on the joint and gets it off. However, the problem is that the axle and pot joints splines are not protected from the weather and they corrode. It gets bad enough that the pot joint gets stuck to the axle and will not come off even with a puller. If the pot joint needs to be replaced, it is better to just cut the inner part and split it. Like I had to do.

http://www.theminifo...axle/page__hl__

If the pot joint internals are good enough to reuse then it might be better to remove the outer CV joint gaiter, remove the axle from the outer joint, replace both gaiters (the pot joint gaiter is inverted for the smaller strap installation), reinstall the axle to the outer joint with gaiter. To install in the car, cover the greased inner pot joint internals with a plastic bag and slide the the axle through the subframe hole and attach the hub to the lower ball joint. Remove the plastic bag and slide the inner pot joint piece into the outer until the upper ball joint can be engaged. At that point the gaiter can be slipped on and the outer strap for the pot joint can be installed.
That is what worked for me.

Edited by xrocketengineer, 05 October 2012 - 05:58 PM.

[tiger99]

Yes, I would do that too. Undo the hub nut, and take the shaft right out, to make the job easier and less messy. You can easily get the outer gaiter off (just cut clips and pull it back), then a good hard whack with a brass hammer (shaft ideally held in vice) will have the outer CV off the shaft, so it is easy to remove the outer gaiter, then the inner gaiter, over the outer end. You will not damage the outer gaiter, but I would clean and regrease the outer CV and fit a new gaiter anyway, as these are consumable items which do wear out. Why dismantle twice, when once will do?

The plastic bag over the innards of the pot joint while threading it through the subframe is a neat trick, which I must to try remember for future use.

[UBSTANKN]

Thanks for the responses guys! I really want to get this done tomorrow. The link you provided is extremely helpful because I didn't realize how far down the CV internal actually went. I'm desperately trying not to disassemble the outer joint because the boot is in good condition, so I don't want to have to pull that whole joint apart and re-grease. A new outer boot is like $25 because of shipping and the item cost, plus another wasted week waiting for it to arrive. I have had this car off the road for 5 months after the lug nuts stripped and a wheel fell off and I was really hoping to enjoy the end of the nice weather. There is a car show this weekend I really wanted to go to with it. There has just been issue after issue trying to repair the damage and put it back together. :-(

The inner parts of the inner CV joint all appear to be in good condition and all the ball joints look smooth and did not fall out so my hope is that as long as I can get this boot on, the whole assembly should go back together without issues.

It does seem like removing the outer CV is easier and that seems to be the route that everyone takes, but given that I already had to cut the inner gaiter to get it off, that sames to be the most efficient route. Maybe I will try a hub puller. At least now I know where the CV separates from the drive shaft!

-Mike

[tiger99]

A hub puller is not going to work, as it has nowhere suitable to attach to. I now understand why you really don't want to disturb the outer CV. In that case, still take the shaft out of the car. The outer CV will come out, still attached to the shaft. Put the shaft in the vice, and whack the inner of the pot joint hard with the brass or copper hammer to get it off. There is very little risk of damage to the outer CV boot with the shaft held in the vice, in fact it is much less risky than doing it on the car, where pulling the shaft out of the outer CV is quite likely.

[UBSTANKN]

Yea I realized after i reread the posting from rocketengineer that the hub puller has nothing to push against since the cv joint covers the entire end of the shaft. After reading all these threads and all the advice and rereading the Haynes manual, I finally understand what it's talking about. I don't have a copper or brass hammer. The Haynes manual doesn't seem to specify what to use. How much damage could I do using a flat piece of steel right on the ridge of the CV?

I had pulled the shaft last night and have been ensuring that I know where everything was so I can put it all back in the same direction. It's currently just sitting in my vice until I can get the CV off. As soon as it comes off, I will put the boot on and the CV on and put the car back together!

-Mike

[xrocketengineer]

I wish you luck. With the axle on the vise, I tried drifts, punches, screwdrivers and even chisels hitting them with a 2 pound hammer and I only got sparks. Last thing I tried was the puller and it broke. I believe that Sprocket mentioned in one of his threads that he once tried a 10 ton press and it did not work for him either. When I split mine lengthwise I still had to hit hard the pieces to slide along the splines so they would come off.

[UBSTANKN]

I gave up on the inside joint and just cut the tie holding the inside of the outer boot. Everything came off really easy but now i can't get it to go back on the the end of the drive shaft. This is frustrating!

-Mike

[tiger99]

If everything is clean externally, you can cut the outer clip and pull off the boot carefully, without losing any significant amount of grease or letting dirt in. Then thread it onto the shaft. That will let you align the inner member correctly to get the shaft in. It has most likely just turned sideways.

[xrocketengineer]

If everything is clean externally, you can cut the outer clip and pull off the boot carefully, without losing any significant amount of grease or letting dirt in. Then thread it onto the shaft. That will let you align the inner member correctly to get the shaft in. It has most likely just turned sideways.

+1 Yes. You need to be able to see the CV splines to align them with the axle.

Edited by xrocketengineer, 06 October 2012 - 04:25 PM.

[UBSTANKN]

I ended up cutting both straps on the outer boot and you were right, it had turned sideways. I finally got everything lined up again without losing much grease. Success! Now ask me why I'm not smiling!

I got the shaft back on the car and made sure the inner joint went back in the exact same position as it was before. After a bit of a struggle got the inner boot strapped onto the pot joint and thought all would be well. It is not moving as smooth as I would expect it to. It seems to bind in one or 2 directions. I don't believe I got any s**t in the joint when I put it back together. I sure hope I don't have to pull it off again. I don't think I have enough of the grease left over to regrease it again.

-Mike

[xrocketengineer]

Hey Mike, when you say "binds" is it getting tighter or locking up? If it is just getting tighter, it is probably the nature of the beast. If it is locking up then it is more serious and the pot joint is not good. But it should very obvious that there is damage. I remember years ago, my dad had a 68 VW Transporter and one of CV joint was so tight that as the wheel rotated in first gear you could hear the engine rpm slow down as the tight spot would be reached. When we took the CV apart, a big chunk was missing on one of the balls and the ball race was mangled.

Ivan