27 replies to this topic

[kappa]

Hi,

My question today is I need to chage my fuel line from the tank to the fuel pump on the engine in my clubman estate, as it is blocked.

Now I have been looking at the braided fuel line vs the copper fuel line, what is the differance between these two and is there a performance gain in this over the copper fuel line.

What the advantages and disadvantages in both lines?

Also does anyone know what length would I need from the fuel tank in the back of the car to the mechanical fuel pump and the engine side of the car?

All help is really appriciated.

Thank You

Bobby

[tractor]

looks like you'll need 96" plus the tank flexi section and the hieght of the bulk head http://www.minispare...sic/21A919.aspx

but i would also like to know whats the advantages of braided vrs copper other than copper will be cheaper

Trac

[tractor]

sorry just realised you said clubman estate, heres the pipe but theres no length

http://www.minispare.../classic/petrol

Trac

[kappa]

Oh ok thank you for that, but still would love to know the advantages and disadvantage between the two (braided vs copper)

[mike.]

I would say there's no advantage really. The idea of braided hose is supposed to replace the rubber fuel pipes not the copper ones really, you'll spend a fortune running braided hose the whole length of the car.

Best bet is using braided hose between the tank and the copper pipe running under the car, and then using another bit of braided hose from the other end to the carb.

Braided is better than rubber because it doesn't perish as badly as a bare rubber hose and has better heat and abrasion resistance.

[dklawson]

I assume this is an extension of your other thread.

The overbraided lines look sporty and nice and they are of course a bit more protected than bare rubber lines. However, they are costly. No one is going to see the bling underneath the car. Therefore, if you want to replace the fuel line, run new metal lines from the rear to the front. Where there is the need for flexible transitions, use the flexible fuel hose. There is no performance gain to be had using overbraided flexible hose the whole length. The overbraided line is mainly something you do for show, at least on a street car.

My suggestion before you replace anything is to disconnect the line at the tank and see if the blockage is in the connection to the new tank. Look for and replace any inline filters previous owners have added between the tank and pump. And, replace any and all lengths of old rubber fuel line that you re-used when putting the new tank in place.

[Ethel]

I'm sure I read somewhere that copper reacts with petrol, no idea if that's all petrol or if it happens quickly enough to be a concern. Plenty of diy car builders use copper.

[kappa]

Ok thanks alot for this infor and yes it is a extension from the other thread.

Cheers

Bobby

[dklawson]

The reaction with cooper had better be minimal. Consider for a moment how key carb components are made of brass which is a copper/tin alloy. That said, I don't believe you will find that the "copper" fuel line is pure copper. Just like brake lines I anticipate you will find copper fuel lines are an alloy utilized to minimize fatigue failures.

EDIT: Kappa, do investigate the existing line. It would be a shame to see you spend money on new parts and time to install them if the root cause of the problem is an old fuel filter installed by a previous owner or something like a collapsed rubber fuel line.

Edited by dklawson, 17 September 2012 - 05:20 PM.

[sledgehammer]

All my opinion ...

Rubber hose needs less joins for the same job - less hose clips - less possible leaks

hose can be clamped direct to body - copper needs a flex bush between pipe & body clip

without a flare on it , a rubber joiner can come off a copper pipe

rubber pipe is better at insulating engine heat

but ...

Copper looks like someone has taken time and effort over it

Copper is safer with mech fuel pump - near exhaust pipe (but still needs rubber joiner)

Copper should last longer

[tiger99]

The problem is that the copper fuel pipe really is almost pure copper, and it is said to react with certain fuels, causing things like carburettor blockage, or far worse in injection systems. In any case, its poor fatigue properties make it very undesirable to use on a car, where vibration is present, although as the pressure in the fuel system is minimal, it does not have the severe problems of copper brake pipe, which should not ever be used. (The BS specification to which it is made is in no way suitable for use on brake systems, but ok for fuel as far as the properties of the pipe itself are concerned.)

You can get Cunifer fuel pipe, which is far more fatigue resistant than pure copper, but looks duller. I don't have information on its compatibility with fuel, but it can't be worse than copper. However, read the link below and you will not be using either, or maybe not the braided line either, depending on its liner material.

http://www.groups.tr...nol-update.html

Personally, I would stick with the original plated steel, which has a proven track record.

[tractor]

hose can be clamped direct to body - copper needs a flex bush between pipe & body clip

Anyone know where you can get these from?

Personally, I would stick with the original plated steel, which has a proven track record.

and this one? do you know any suppliers for this?


Trac

[dklawson]

Anyone know where you can get these from?

The above question referring to the rubber bush(es)? I have always found that taking a piece of rubber fuel line and splitting it so it can be slipped over the tubing is all that is required. What you are trying to do is provide a compliant mount for the metal tubing and prevent it from rubbing against other metal parts.

When I worked on the underbody of my Mini many years ago I found the fuel pipe supported with nothing more than rubber/vinyl sleeving over those little metal tab/fingers that are bent to secure the line. At the front (and probably the rear) there were "P" clips with rubber liners bolted to various places to support the tubing. See the link below.
demon-tweeks P Clips

[Sleepy Stu]

I had this very dilema a few weeks ago and after ruining the first copper pipe I installed I gave up and went braided. Wasn't too expensive in the end. 8mm feed and 6mm return came to about £30 in total

Edited by Sleepy Stu, 18 September 2012 - 06:25 PM.

[tractor]

sorry just realised you said clubman estate, heres the pipe but theres no length

http://www.minispare.../classic/petrol

Trac

https://www.minispar...nks.aspx?1~6~50

Here you go Kappa check out item 16 in the list at the bottom, it states the pipe is 134" long

Thank DKlawson Rubber sleeve and p clips are the way forward then..!!

and thanks for the pic Stu, whats the return pipe for? i thought theres usually only the one pipe?

Cheers
Trac