18 replies to this topic

[TDOD]

Hi just lately it seems to be problem after problem, I have replaced the engine in my mini and I can not get the drive shaft back into the joint on the engine..
when i took the original engine out I took the top ball joint and the steering joint off and pulled the driveshaft out but now at the put back stage the shaft will not go back in the ball bearings seem to be to big I am not sure how much force is needed before you start doing damage.. Do they just push back in or am I trying to do something the wrong way it has got me puzzled..
Any advice greatly appreciated
I have searched on here but cannot find information I need

[jaydee]

Sorry maybe i'm misunderstanding, but you took the driveshaft out of the pot joint, instead of taking the pot joint out of the gearbox?
If so, check the pot joint for any damage, and fit a new circlip to the driveshaft before refitting the shaft in the pot. It is a quite tight fit.

[tiger99]

I think his problem is that he can't get the pot joint back together, not get the shaft into the pot!

The pot joint internals vary in size between manufacturers, also some have been reconditioned, with inner and outer members reground to take larger balls, anda new cage. Pot joint components must never be interchanged for that reason. But if it is the same pot, still on the diff, with the same shaft, cage, balls and inner member, I can't see why it will not reassemble. They just push together. Maybe a new one will be tight, but not after a few thousand miles of use.

It will help to ensure that the cage is sitting straight on the inner member, and push it in straight.

Did you swap the old pot joint outer part onto the new engine? If not, as I said above, you are mixing parts which must not be mixed. You need the outer part from your old engine. That is the only place where I see that you could have gone wrong.

[TDOD]

thanks for the replys I think I could be in the s***t I have not swapped the pot joint off my old engine which I no longer have I thought the driveshaft would fit in any joint thought they would all be a standard part....
so I could be facing a bit of a problem if they do not fit, i remember having to pull pretty hard to get them out of the old engine so just pressumed they would be a tight fit in the new engine.

[Guess-Works.com]

Unfortunately not, there are different sizes of pot joint, and should really be kept together as a matched pair.

Your best option may just be to buy two new pots, one for each side.

[TDOD]

now I am confused if the pot joint and shaft should be a matching pair how can i buy a new pair of just the pot joints? wont I have the same problem I have now???

[TDOD]

sorry to post again but been looking into this as I want to get this mini out of the garage asap. when you buy an inner pot joint I now presume you get the inner cage part with it to fit onto your driveshaft. so my problem then is as I have my driveshaft still attached to the hub which is still attached to the car, am I going to have to take the driveshaft out of the car alltogether by taking it off the hub to fit the new cage on the end for the new pot joint, this job is becoming a bit of a nightmare.

[Shifty]

The pot joint comes complete and ready to fit. Not hugely expensive to buy new.

It's easier to remove the shaft so you can hold it the vice to knock the old one off. You can do it on the car if you like. I did one on a car park once without removing the shaft.

[tiger99]

The pot joint is not matched to the shaft. All pot joints come as a complete assembly, and the bits must be kept together, but any complete pot joint will fit the shaft of any Mini which uses pots, and the pot will also fit any gearbox/diff which uses pots, so you have no need to do anything excepgt get a new pair of pot joints. push them fully into the gearbox, and push the shafts fully into the pots. Fortunately, being a consumable item, they are made in decent quantity and are not hideously expensive.

As a general rule, any wearing part that has been running against another should stay toghether (e.g. tappets on the same cam lobe), so parts of pot joints and CV joints shouldnever be mixed.If you keep them together, always, you will be assured of correct fit, regardless of the original manufacturer and the tolerances they applied.

[Dan]

I thought the driveshaft would fit in any joint thought they would all be a standard part....

They are and they do, the problem is that instead of removing the shaft from the joint you have broken the joint in half. The star shaped piece holding the balls on the end of your driveshaft is part of the joint. The shaft pushes into that part and ends in a plain spline just like it does at the outer joint. When you split the gaiter and just pull the shaft, you are pulling the joint apart. Even if you are using the same inner and outer joint parts and balls, you really have to make sure they go back into the same rotational arrangement because all the parts wear into each other in use and are then matched. Pot joints are CV joints, they are precision parts and should be treated as such.

[TDOD]

Thanks all it is becoming clear now, how did you get the existing gage off the shaft while it was still on the car Shifty this would be the best way for me to do it i think it would save me undoing the hub end or is that as easy as taking the castle nut off and the shaft should come out?

[Dan]

Look at the end of the shaft, you will see the edge of the inner joint member. It is a flat section just past where the shaft is curved outwards in a radius. Stricke that flat edge with a heavy screwdriver and hammer. They should knock off like any CV. If you have trouble, since the joint members you have there are now U/S you can prise the grease cap off the end and drive the shaft out by striking the end of it inside with the star held in a vice.

You don't need to take the shaft out, but if you do want to then yes releasing the castle nut should let you pull the whole thing out of place. Careful with the bearings and remember the disc and drive flange will be loose after. The caliper will stop it going anywhere but be careful of it and obviously it can't support any weight.

[TDOD]

Got two pot joints on order so I am now very hopefull that i can get the old ones out of the engine which would of been easier before i put the engine in the car, and that i can get the cage piece off the driveshaft without removing them from the car..
Getting a bit fed up of pulling things apart need to get this sorted so I can get car back on wheels and give it a respray
many thanks for all the advice

[Neildanks]

i ended up pressing mmy shafts out with a press as they had rusted internally on the splines. but did evenually go with 10 tonne of pressure

Originally there where 2 size pots, anyway the internal measurement where the balls seat was originally smaller in the earlier minis, i had this problem when i did my engine swap.
They look and measure alike on the outside faces misleading i know.

Edited by Neildanks, 21 March 2012 - 05:51 PM.

[TDOD]

bit of an update I have been out in the garage to try and sort this out, The pot joints came off no problem quick tap with a flat chisel and they were off only prob there is a small washer oil seal type thing that the Haynes manual say is a oil flinger one had disintergrated do they come with the pot joint or do I have to peurchase them separate..
I tapped the cage end off the driveshaft drivers side was no prob came off easy but the passenger side when i was tapping the shaft pulled out of the outer cv joint which enabled me to put that shaft in the vice and tap that one off..
so all in all I feel progress has been made