44 replies to this topic

[lrostoke]

Sorry it does say for disc

Models with disc brakes

11 Refitting is the reverse sequence to

removal, bearing in mind points a and c

detailed in paragraph 10. Additionally, the

following procedure must be observed,

otherwise it is possible that the split-collar

fitted beneath the driveshaft retaining nut will

become clamped to the shaft before the shaft

is fully home in the hub bearings.

12 Insert the driveshaft through the swivel

hub, but do not fit the split collar. Obtain a

plain washer of the dimensions shown (see

illustration). If necessary, make the washer

from mild steel.

[Cosford Cowboy]

The washer is for DRUM braked cars which have a different set up.............

No its not, you use a flat washer to "pull in" the CV joint before the coned washer grips, as laid out in the Hayes Manual and the rover bulletins.

[lrostoke]

Haynes I did state Haynes in my first reply. Of course you'll now call it the Haynes book of lies :) But I'd imagine Haynes mini manual as been out that long I would think they would have revised pretty much any mistakes out of it by now.

To be fair though I found what I presume is a workshop manual online and it doesn't mention the plain washer
Although Cowboy does mention update bullitens so maybe they added it to those ??

2. Fit hub bearing water shield onto drive shaft as

shown:

’A’ = 6 mm approximately.

3. Lubricate end of drive shaft and fit to inboard

joint.

NOTE: Ensure shaft is securely retained

by joint.

4. Clean front hub ball joints and mating faces of

suspension arms.

5. Fit front hub to drive shaft and engage upper

and lower ball joints on suspension arms.

6. Fit nuts and washers securing suspension

arms to front hub and tighten to 52 Nm.

7. Connect steering rack track rod end to front

hub, fit nut and tighten to 30 Nm.

8. Clean front brake disc.

9. Fit brake caliper to front hub.

10. Fit 2 bolts and washers securing brake caliper

to front hub and tighten to 52 Nm.

11. Fit road wheel.

12. Position jack beneath lower suspension arm

and raise front suspension.

13. Remove wedge between suspension arm and

subframe.

14. Position rebound rubber and secure with

screw.

15. Remove jack from beneath suspension arm.

16. Remove stand(s) and lower vehicle.

17. Fit split collar and tighten hub nut to 260 Nm.

18. Align nut to next

Edited by lrostoke, 13 February 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[Cosford Cowboy]

You don't need a washer, never ever used one on any mini I've worked on............if it was needed don't you all think it'd be mentioned in the factory manuals.

I bet you don't use a torque wrench either ?

Its in the Haynes workshop manual and in the Rover service sheets.

Can see why your called 'cowboy' and no it isn't in any of the manuals.........

Look above LOL

[Cosford Cowboy]

Looks like youv'e upset mr DILLIGAFF

You don't need a washer, never ever used one on any mini I've worked on............if it was needed don't you all think it'd be mentioned in the factory manuals.

I bet you don't use a torque wrench either ?

Its in the Haynes workshop manual and in the Rover service sheets.

Can see why your called 'cowboy' and no it isn't in any of the manuals.........

And I can see why you are called SILLIGAFF

[Dan]

It's to stop the conical washer from closing up as you tighten the nut and crimping itself onto the CV joint. It's very easy to have the CV in slightly the wrong place, the washer slighty out of line and then it really does clamp up and completely prevent the CV sliding any further. The cone washer is designed to clamp the CV, once a CV has been fitted it gets a groove in the shaft where the cone washer sits so it's more important to use the flat washer when reusing a CV and swapping the bearings as not every set of taper bearings will have the same finished stack size so the CV might have to sit in a very slightly different position. It's nice to think that everyone is going to inspect and possibly linish the CV nose and assemble everything sympathetically and properly but in practise they won't and using the flat washer helps to make sure everything goes together well. I have to say that I've never seen it in a Rover manual either, but then there's also nothing in them relating to the recalled brake cylinders or any other changes made over the years. Service bulletins seem to be quite separate from manuals in the world of Rover. Roy has made it very clear that he doesn't agree with this many times. But Roy (forgive me Roy, just trying to make a point) is very definite in his opinions of what he likes and doesn't like and it took time just for him to take on board why we don't like him telling inexperienced home mechanics that they never need to use a torque wrench. So lets not start going through this again please, if there is a procedure that makes anything more successful or safe then please let people use it if they want to. We have had many members dealing with wheelbearings that have been ruined by being badly seated and bearings they can never get tight enough or chase the slack out of. These have almost all (exept in the rare cases where there has been damage to the hub) been resolved by using a seating washer. To the extent that it is now available as a special tool. Please bear in in mind that many people of widely varied experience and ability use this forum and follow the advice given, and please don't bicker.

[Cosford Cowboy]

Not its not, it may well be a bodge, however it is to enable the whole system to be pulled together when thew tolerances are a little tight and pulling it all together by hand is then almost impossible, well for most of the human race, now I know that there are some knuckle draggers out there that could put it together by hand without the need for mechanical assistance, so mr Dilligaf, see it for what it is.

A tool for helping to get the job done correctly without costing extra for damaged parts due to incorrect fitment.

Now I have done a little research and BCMECOSSE is known for his bodges and also for not wanting to spend any money so I guess that new parts will not be something he is familiar with, however mr Dilligaf you appear to have no excuse.

Now here's the test, don't buy a washer, and when you fit all the together and you still have slackness that you cannot remove then try the washer, if that doesn't fix it then replace worn parts.

And as for age, well my dads bigger than yours !!!

[lrostoke]

Actually Cowboys last post as made me see how this works now.
You have a situation where the CV shaft is quite a tight tolerance on the inner bearing race. You could have a situation where the shaft isn't completely seated correctly and just fitting the taper split washer could lock into place before it all pulled tight.
Bit of driving later and parts move, bearing becomes loose as some members have experienced.

[MRA]

I find it funny that this tool that we produce is such a problem to some, but such a god send to others.

We produce it because no one else does, it is a simple washer to our own dimensions to fit all drive flanges, it is inexpensive, because invariably we sold it along side a CV or bearing kit, it will never make me as rich as Dilligaf, however it has saved a lot of my customers a lot of money in replacing further damage.

This also has the effect of increasing reliability, which has to be the biggest reason why people leave the Mini scene.

[MRA]

Looks like youv'e upset mr DILLIGAFF

You don't need a washer, never ever used one on any mini I've worked on............if it was needed don't you all think it'd be mentioned in the factory manuals.

I bet you don't use a torque wrench either ?

Its in the Haynes workshop manual and in the Rover service sheets.

Can see why your called 'cowboy' and no it isn't in any of the manuals.........

And I can see why you are called SILLIGAFF

Hardly 'cowboy' I take it you don't ride horses.......

This is a family forum please keep your sexual perversions to yourself.

[Dan]

A special tool form the same place that brought up this imaginary problem............

Imaginary or not (I personally doubt that all the members who have had this problem imagined it, or are imaginary themselves) to my knowledge Haynes don't make tools.

[icklemini]

the advice to use the 'flat washer' is in the haynes manual:
Have to admit I *always* use it when doing hub nuts up... and never had a problem...
in saying that am sure others dont use it and never have had an issue...
though I do know that I have seen a number of racers where the split conical washer has fretted and broke... also the CV shaft has broken up too.... and i do know that the cars that have suffered these problems havent been used with the flat washer...

now am not saying one thing or another: but I use the flat washer and have done for years without problem on road and racers....

[Cosford Cowboy]

Next time you fit a proper ie. original collar and tighten it up to the correct torque, have a look at the gap..........
Hopefully my last post on this topic, as this is going the usual way.

WOuld that be the gap between your ears ?

[Dan]

Enough.

[The Matt]

I am going to close this. The OP has their answer and unfortunately this has descended into a pretty petty argument.

I don't have the time to do much other than close it, so I'll review it tonight (unless another mod gets a chance to sort it in the mean time).

Personal insults, name-calling, we have a reputation for being a kids' forum, but as far as I can tell we're all adults in here, so can we please, please just answer the questions. Healthy debate is fine, but why resort to the name-calling and mud slinging??

Matt