44 replies to this topic

[RawlinsGTR]

(I have a disc brake mini).

Hi all,

I'm going to be replacing the front hub upper and lower ball-joints on my car, and I have a few questions that need answering please:

1. It says in the Haynes Manual that a "solid packing piece" should be fitted in place of the upper suspension arm rebound rubber. Is this absolutely necessary, and will not doing it cause problems later?

2. What ball-joint separator will work for both the steering tie-rod ball-joint as well as the actual hub ball-joints? Will any universal one from Halfords work, and what method is preferred; Cup, Fork or Scissor splitter?

3. What parts, excluding the actual replacement ball-joints, will I need to buy so that they can be replaced when refitting the swivel hubs?
In the Haynes Manual, on page 10.4 it talks about needing a washer for the re-fitment of the hub in order to seat the driveshaft in the hub bearings, as well as a split-collar.
a. Is the washer necessary, or would I be able to seat the drive shaft in the hub bearings properly without it?
b. Shall I get new split-collars in preparation, considering that this is the first time the hub will have been removed in 98000 miles?

I'm asking all this because mine's a daily driver, so I want to get it done in as quick a time as possible rather than it sitting there on my drive because I've not been fully prepared.

Which has happened SO many times!

Cheers,

Simon.

[The Matt]

Hey Dog,

1. I never take the rebound buffer off, I find a suitable sized nut or something and place it behind the rebound buffer and there's just enough room for it to sit on and still have the top arm's rebound-buffer-casting-thingamybob land on it. To do this, jack the hub up and slide the nut in. BUT PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU DON'T LOSE A FINGER by doing this! Taking the rebound buffer off means you can insert something from the front, rather than having to put it in from the side and juggling it in.

2. Try and use a scissor type, but they don't always release them and some of them don't fit in around the arm. Some of the silverline ones I've had in the past are a little small to fit on. Borrow don't buy is good advice is you can do.

3. You MUST tighten the CV joint into the hub using a thick washer of a suitable size before placing the tapered split washer into the hub. Not doing that might mean that the hub and CV haven't pulled together enough, but the tapered collar/washer acts as a locking washer of sorts. Tighten the flat washer up, then remove it, then fit the collar washer, then tighten the nut until you've aligned one of the castellations in the nut with a hole in the hub.

Tools are already covered, but I'd order:
Spare track rod end just in case you find it to be knackered, or when you use a splitter you damage the thread.
Ball joint kits (genuine ones).
Two spare collars, just in case (I'll explain below later)
Two spare split pins

The track rod end should be readily available from most local motor factors, ball joints....maybe. Minispares or whatever will have the washers.

When I recently "checked" my wheel bearings before the Bingley show. I found the N/S one was knackered....which was odd because it was new. I can only imagine that the reason for it being so worn was that I'd fitted it incorrectly. The outer race of the Timken bearing had a wear line all around it that looked like a fracture. The tapered collar was totally eaten away. Luckily the hub was fine and I replaced the bearing OK. But had I not had a spare tapered collar in the toolbox, I'd have been stuffed as it had a lot of wear in it.

I'm ashamed to admit that I've also had problems with the track rod ends and damaging the thread by getting aggressive with the hammer and the splitter. The boots often rip on them if you use a fork type, so I always have mini track rod ends in the garage too!

Perhaps I'm jsut too rough!

[RawlinsGTR]

Cheers for the lengthy reply Matt, much appreciated..

Few questions;

1. I'm being a div, and I can't quite work out what the need for putting anything where the rebound buffer is; why do we need to do this? That's just a question out of interest, that's all.

2. If I were to order a track rod end (might get two, just in case) from minispares, would you advise genuine or non-genuine? As in, would getting non-genuine be a problem, or not?

3. I presume that buying a whole track rod end includes the boot too.. I wouldn't need to buy a spare boot as well?

Thanks again for the reply.

Simon.

EDIT:

Oh, also; where can I get grinding paste (or whatever it's called) from a shop.. for lapping the joints in?

Edited by Dog., 10 February 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[The Matt]

1. By putting a nut under where the rebound buffer is, the top arm is locked up in a high enough position to be able to get the ball joints out of the bottom and top arm. With the car jacked up and the hub hanging down on the rebound buffer, you can't move the bottom arm down low enough to give you clearance to get the pins out of their holes. ;)

2. I've normally used non-genuine track rod ends. I think the last one I fitted did happen to be a genuine from Minispares as I'd ordered spare ones to sit in the garage for a rainy day (I do daft things like that). Turns out I needed one after badgering the rubber and also the thread whilst changing the bearing!

3. Yup, boot is included with both genuine and non-genuine. Another trick I've done is whenever I've changed track rod ends and ball joints on some cars in the past I've kept the rubber boots so I've got loads of differnet sized ones in my tool box. Some of them have come in handy over the years too. The track-rod-end is really only necessary if you're not careful enough when you separate the joint (or if you find that it's knackered when you're working on the car) so is probably overkill to be honest. You can get non-genuine ones for abotu a fiver and genuine for around £8ish. They're just the sort of thing I keep handy really, just personal preference buddy.

4. Grinding paste- most motor factors, Halfords, I have a pot at home, can't remember the brand but it's a blue and white stripey pot with a red logo, double-ended tin with fine in one end and coarse in the other, real handy for joints and valves. It's valve-lapping paste really....wait *googles* http://compare.ebay....sbar&adtype=pla

From Halfords, that's just a few quid and a handy thing to keep in the toolbox should you ever do any cylinder head work.

[RawlinsGTR]

Cool, fanks for all the help Maffew. :DD

Seriously, cheers.

Dilligaf; I've got a special relationship with my chisels, and I don't want to go cutting them up.

Edited by Dog., 10 February 2012 - 02:07 PM.

[The Matt]

1. I never take the rebound buffer off, I find a suitable sized nut or something and place it behind the rebound buffer and there's just enough room for it to sit on and still have the top arm's rebound-buffer-casting-thingamybob land on it. To do this, jack the hub up and slide the nut in. BUT PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU DON'T LOSE A FINGER by doing this! Taking the rebound buffer off means you can insert something from the front, rather than having to put it in from the side and juggling it in.

FFS use a chisel, cut it down and make a wedge, You don't have to out your fingers under anything then..........

Thanks for the blunt reply about a blunted tool! Really no need for the "FFS" at the start of that reply to be honest.

[RawlinsGTR]

Just been to my local motorfactor, and I made the mistake of not asking for the price over the phone;

For one Track Rod End, it costs £11.28 at trade price. He'd taken ages to find it, so I could barely say no!

So I'm going to take it back Monday, claiming it wasn't needed. Then if I do end up breaking one during the ball joint renewal, I can get my mum or brother to take me down and pick one up. It's only 10 minutes drive away, so that's alright :)

I did get some grinding paste from them though.

What the motorfactors don't do are the split collars, so I'll be ordering them now.

Simon.

[cooperrodeo]

I got some non-genuine track rod ends from a well-known supplier, and never again. They did not have the correct angle of taper. The genuine ones from the same place were OK.

[RawlinsGTR]

Yeah; the ones I got are a unipart product.

Matt; do you know the jaw size and maximum opening capacity for your scissor ball joint splitter?

On minispares is 19mm jaw and 34mm max opening capacity. Just wondering if that's the same as the one you use that you know works.

Cheers.

[Timty]

You might want to check if your ball joint kit comes with new grease nipples, i had to buy mine seperatley.

[BlackJester]

Bit of advise mate, i replaced mine a while ago and it end'd up costing me a replacement driveshaft. Make sure it is in correctly and it all slides together properly don't try forcing anything when putting it back together!

[RawlinsGTR]

I was joking dilligaf. I just.. don't want to

I thought I could remove my old grease nipples and use those; that a bad idea, or will I just not be able to get them off?

[Cosford Cowboy]

When lapping in ONLY use the fine paste and don't be tempted to use a machine to help, in nearly all cases I have seen that a drill or similar was used the joints where either not round or had pick up on the surface where the little high spots had micro welded together then torn themselves off.

Do it by hand and take your time, it will be worth it.

Genuine parts don't really exist anymore. Genuine boxes still exist along with genuine prices.

[Shifty]

I'll be honest I bought some genuine ones(in a unipart box) and really wasn't impressed. The machining wasn't brilliant, I didn't use them in the end and bought some minispares pattern ones. I found them to be much better finished and they felt better to fit.

You can use your old grease nipples.

[minidaves]

1st thing never put your fingers were you would not put your willy.

ball joints take about 1hr a side to do, you will need a vice for sure. make sure you shim it correctly, and do them back up tight. I can also gtee your car has been apart at least once in 98k

dave