76 replies to this topic

[redhotminilewis]

Ive had a little read through the reg today and it states it must show the markings on the pad if it has reg 90 approval. However, If the reference was made before 1999, then it does not technically need testing and therefore it does not need reg 90. So these pads have not gained reg 90, either because they haven't been tested or had failed the test but still been allowed to be sold because they do not technically need it.

However, there should be no legal issues if the brake pads reference has been made before 1999. Anything made before that has to pass this test.

The only real way to tell if they are safe for your use is when you push the brake pedal if you end up 100 yards from where you want to stop or in a hedge

Ethel, the piston is not supposed to touch the calliper but if the piston has corroded and rusted, this expansion may cause the piston to scrape along the calliper bore and when they heat up they expand even more and scrape even more I thought. Aren't the new stainless steel pistons now preferred because they don't corrode and expand as much?

Lewis

Edited by redhotminilewis, 10 November 2011 - 10:47 AM.

[Ethel]

My comment was for Minimissionary who says he's been advised he needs new calipers instead of just seals & pistons.

I agree stainless pistons would be better, and he's not likely to get them in a set of new standard replacement calipers. Not that he should need to pay £90 a side for them, especially if he finds out they are refurbished like he's been advised not to do.

[redhotminilewis]

My comment was for Minimissionary who says he's been advised he needs new calipers instead of just seals & pistons.

I agree stainless pistons would be better, and he's not likely to get them in a set of new standard replacement calipers. Not that he should need to pay £90 a side for them, especially if he finds out they are refurbished like he's been advised not to do.

Totally agree. I don't think you would get the luxury of stainless pistons with a refurbishment but you may get lucky.

[minimissionary]

Right. I've E-mailed mintex. Their phone thing is useless; either putting you through to telesales or accounts. They've taken the "Regulation 90" article down from their website since I rang them though. Bit odd.

With regards to the calipers; are you saying I don't need new ones? If the pistons have corroded, then surely the bores would have too? In which case, just changing the pistons and seals would only be a temporary fix.

Edited by minimissionary, 11 November 2011 - 04:52 PM.

[Cooperman]

It would be very unusual for the bores to be a problem. As said above, the pistons don't touch the bores, they just touch the seal, so the bores don't wear or corrode.
All you do is to buy a stainless steel piston re-build kit which comes complete with new seals. Strip the old pistons out - it's easiest if you split the calliper into its two parts, clean out the calliper pars very thoroughly, fit the new pressure seals, the new stainless pistons and the new outer dust seals (the most difficult part of the job!), then put the two parts back together with a new rubber 'O-ring' between the two parts (not included in the kit) and bolt back together using Loctite on the bolt threads and tightening to 45 lb. ft torque.

[minimissionary]

All sounds very simple, and much cheaper than getting new ones! I presume this is a couple of hours job to a novice?
Edit: Also, thanks very much for the advice.

Edited by minimissionary, 11 November 2011 - 06:05 PM.

[diogoteix]

My experience with M1144 in Portugal is that everything was fine as long as temperatures were above 20º.
I finished my rebuild in May this year and temperatures were closer to 30º than below.

Since a few weeks back, with temperature going below 10º in the morning and rain coming, the "braking process" really started to become scary.
I really had to anticipate my stops! And I'm pretty sure you don't always have the luxury to do so!

I switched for green pads and things are now under control. The huge squeals I was getting from my brakes have also become much more acceptable.

[Cooperman]

Before taking the hydraulic connections off, take the pads out and put pieces of wood into the place where the pads go. These should be thinner than a pad. Then pump the pedal until the pistons come a bit further out. Otherwise it can be difficult getting the old pistons out.
Before starting buy a can of 'Brake & Clutch Cleaner', plus loads of clean cotton rag, an old toothbrush, and sme brake rubber grease. Also a tin of brake fluid.
Make sure everything is scrupulously clean before re-assembling and make sure you use the correct seals in the correct places. The pressure seals go in first with a little rubber grease in the groove, then lightly grease the piston and slide it right in. Finally lightly grease around the outer lip and install, very carefully, the dust seal. It's easy to kink the lip of the dust seal retainer, so be careful.
Whatever you do, don't forget the new rubber O-ring between the two calliper pieces.
One more thing, leave the flexible hose on the car and unscrew the calliper off of the hose, noting that there is a copper washer at the hose end as a seal.
Any problems, come back on here.
This topic should really be in 'technical'.

[minimissionary]

Thank you very much for the help. Agreed, it should be in the tech bit, but it's stuck to the tail end of an entirely different topic. My own fault really.
One last question though, will it be blatantly obvious if I do kink the seal putting the piston in? Brake failure is one of fate's less amusing skits.

[mingy]

All sounds very simple, and much cheaper than getting new ones! I presume this is a couple of hours job to a novice?
Edit: Also, thanks very much for the advice.

I did exactly what cooperman has advised you to do, my 7.5" discs had stood for 19 years with brake fluid or wee or something in there and the pistons were goosed (chrome plated steel ones).
So i got new s/s pistons and repair kit and set to on my ,having never attempted anything like this.
The hardest part is the dust seal metal outer which goes on last,take your time with them,don,t lose your rag like i did and hey ho like new calipers. I,m still using pads out of a BL box that came with the car!!

[Carlos W]

Could the Mintex pads be intended for a market that doesn't need the markings? If they're a good price it might explain why.
On the legalities, I reckon the insurers would have to prove firstly that you intentionally fitted illegal pads and secondly that they contributed to the accident. You're not supposed to drive over the speed limit, when drunk, or without exercising due care & attention - they still pay out if you were committing those offences when you ploughed into the other car.

They'll pay the 3rd Party liability but if you crash your car whilst drunk, and you're convicted of drink driving they may not pay out!

[TAR]

there has been some mis-information posted in this thread, which is always a worry when people pass it off as fact.

The ECE R90 regulation is ONLY in force for vehicles manufactured after 1999. This means that all brake pads must conform to this regulation in order for them to be able to be fitted as after-market parts. Any vehicle manufactured before this time can have pads fitted which conform to the relevant standards in force at the time of manufacture.

The legislation mostly came about due to the recent influx of cheap Chinese brake material which is substantially lower quality than OE spec. ECE R90 stipulates that after-market brake pads must perform to within 15% of the original.

the following is an extract from the The Road Vehicles (Brake Linings Safety) Regulations 1999

Brake linings for relevant vehicles

4.—(1) Subject to regulation 5, no person shall—

(a)supply or offer or agree to supply for fitting to a relevant vehicle;

(b)expose or possess for supply for fitting to a relevant vehicle; or

©fit to a relevant vehicle,

brake linings which do not meet the requirements specified in paragraph (2)(a) or (b).

(2) The requirements are—

(a)that the brake linings—

(i)have been type approved in accordance with the requirements of the Braking Devices Directive;

(ii)have been marked by the manufacturer in accordance with the requirements of paragraph 3 of Article 6 of the Framework Directive; and

(iii)are marked and packaged in accordance with the requirements of point 4 and point 6 of Annex XV of the Braking Devices Directive; or

(b)that the brake linings—

(i)have been approved in accordance with paragraph 4 of ECE Regulation 90.01; and

(ii)are marked and packaged in accordance with paragraph 6 of that Regulation.


Exception to regulation 4

5. Nothing in regulation 4 shall be taken to apply in relation to replacement brake linings for fitting or fitted to a relevant vehicle which was first used before 1st September 1999, provided that the replacement brake linings are not such as to cause the vehicle to contravene the version of the Braking Devices Directive that was applicable to it when it was first used..

[redhotminilewis]

Yes, This was cleared up but its not only to do with date of manufacture of the car. It is the pad reference.

For instance if you fit a new model 2011 Brembo calliper ***(Making this up as a situation)*** with a completely different pad to a 1969 mini, the new pad design - for this new calliper on the market - will need to be reg 90 approved.

Usually the aftermarket calliper makers will use an existing pad on the market to make their lives easier but some manufacture like Alcon will design their own pad.

Lewis

[minimissionary]

Still no reply to the email I sent Mintex a month or so ago. Past the point of caring now anyways. If the pads fail, and I crash, I won't be around to worry about insurance payouts anyhow

[Cooperman]

Still no reply to the email I sent Mintex a month or so ago. Past the point of caring now anyways. If the pads fail, and I crash, I won't be around to worry about insurance payouts anyhow

Hi-grade Mintex 1144, 1155, 1166 or 1177 will not fail, ever. What you will have will be the best pads on any car to drive along the roads you're using that day.