76 replies to this topic

[minimissionary]

Minisi35, it's not necessarily the performance of the pads I have a problem with, its the insurance issue. It's simply not worth using something that doesn't conform to the regulations. Insurance companies will do anything not to pay out. I don't like the idea of that happening when I really don't need it to.

[minimissionary]

Sorry for the double thread, and for going slightly off topic, but the mechanic who usually deals with the big jobs and advice has told me to replace the whole caliper rather than just the pistons and seals. Apparently due to the corrosion of the bore. Is this correct? £90 a side for standard calipers PLUS new brake pads is making me feel queasy.

[Tamworthbay]

If they're good enough for the track, then they sure are good enough for the road.

hhmmm, try stopping an F1 car on cold brakes on a winters morning and you might disagree.

But we're talking about Minis not F1 cars!

What I meant was the quality of parts used for motorsport are defiantly good enough for road cars (so long as they're road legal obviously).

Theres no difference really, simple physics, if you want to run full race pads on the road then fine but the first time you try and do an emergency stop on cold pads............................. Trust me on this there is no gain to be had and idea of 'if its race its good' has caused more money to be wasted than any other in the history of car 'improvements'. Many race parts are cheaply made and don't survive long on the road - why? because tracks are generally smooth and many racers throw stuff away at the end of a season or even end of a race. What you need is the best you can buy for the sort of driving you do. If you don't get near a track then full race pads won't be what you need and will actually be worse not better on the road. There are loads of good websites and books on this sort of thing and worth spending time researching improvements before forking out extra cash.

Edit: I assume you were suggesting that Mini's are better than F1 cars by the way? Otherwise you might upset a few people on here. lol

Edited by Tamworthbay, 09 November 2011 - 04:43 PM.

[Cooperman]

M1144 are great all-round pads for brisk road driving. I use Mintex 1177 on my Rover 214 rally car which, of course, does road miles as well.
The M1144 is a fairly mild competition pad and the low temp coeff of friction is not a problem.
I've had M1144 in my Cooper 'S' but have switched to Carbon-Metallics as the M1144 used to fade when used really hard on the 7.5" solid discs.
On the 12" wheel with the bigger discs the M1144 is just great for all uses.
Green Stuff are just a slightly improved road pad which will fade if used at all hard.

[Carlos W]

If the pads say not for road use, and you crash on the road and kill someone you may be in massive trouble!

And insurance companies will do anything not to pay out, so you may technically be uninsured!

[Cooperman]

And you are going to drive around with a big notice saying "this car is fitted with race pads which are not suitable for road use"?
So long as the car will pass an MoT braking test it has legal pads.
I've been driving all types of rally cars cars on the roads for over 50 years with competition pads and the braking is always superior to normal pads.
All, repeat all, rally cars have these competition pads and they all drive on the roads. If they didn't then they would run out of brakes on every special test or 'tightly timed' road section. If you buy a set of pads for rallying from, say, Questmead' of Rochdale, who are the best friction material supplier in the UK for all sorts of competition, they will supply M1144, 1166 or 1177. My Rover 214 Si needs M1177 for rallying which is a harder pad than an 1144. There are always road sections and it really is not an issue. If you need harder pads in order to be able to drive safely, then you just fit them. I've never heard of an insurer taking a set of pads and having them tested in a labroratory to establish the brake pad compound. I suspect that if they did some of the 'cheapie' after-market pads would prove highly unsuitable for any use.
On my cars I just have to fit competition pads and use them on the roads.

[Carlos W]

Cars involved in fatal collisions are subject to all sorts of examinations! And the issue isn't about whether the pads are suitable for roads use, its the fact "not for road use" is written on the packaging

[Cooperman]

In that case every, and I mean every, rally car in this country has pads which are not suitable for road use as Mintex 1144 is about the mildest competition pad available.
What does that say about the manufacturers of those pads who specify them for rally use? Every rally car has to be road-legal but all use competition pads.

[minimissionary]

Cars involved in fatal collisions are subject to all sorts of examinations! And the issue isn't about whether the pads are suitable for roads use, its the fact "not for road use" is written on the packaging

Very true. What is suitable for road use in common sense terms may not be suitable for road use in the legal sense. Personally can't see why mobility scooters are road legal, but they are. Tenuous link, I know.

[Carlos W]

Cars involved in fatal collisions are subject to all sorts of examinations! And the issue isn't about whether the pads are suitable for roads use, its the fact "not for road use" is written on the packaging

Very true. What is suitable for road use in common sense terms may not be suitable for road use in the legal sense. Personally can't see why mobility scooters are road legal, but they are. Tenuous link, I know.

Completely agree, they should have to be insured and the operators should have to be assessed to make sure they're safe

[Cooperman]

This is what Mintex themselves say, which defines all their products as legal for road use. Note that they define the 1177 as suitable for rally use, which they will know includes road mileage. How could an insurer argue with this?

Friction product manufacturers since 1908
Mintex is one of the worlds leaders in both range and quality when it comes to brake pad friction. Our reputation as a quality Original Equipment supplier is second to none and this is reflected in our Aftermarket range.
Mintex are at the forefront when it comes to quality.
Not only do all manufacturing sites conform to ISO9002 standard but the brake pads themselves have the added guarantee of being either E-Mark or KBA approved. This performance guarantee is in addition to our existing package of No Quibble replacement before 15,000 miles/24,000 km or 1 year which is included in every Mintex red box.
Further to our standard Aftermarket materials Mintex produce a range of
specialised materials known as C-Tech racing pads. This family of
materials has been developed from our involvement in motorsport. The
first material M1144 is mainly used for fast road use and is primarily
targeted at hot hatch drivers. The other three materials M1155, M1166
and M1177 are specifically for circuit and rally competition use.

[minimissionary]

I've just read something to that effect on the Mintex website. Their testing goes far and beyond the regulation 90 that redhotminilewis was talking about on the previous page. They need to conform to this to be road legal. Apparently the 'E' mark on the Mintex pads show they do conform. I am however, struggling to find said 'E' anywhere on my brake pads. I'm also confused as to why Mintex themselves would put a sticker on the side of a box containing their own product saying "Warning: This material must not be used on public highways" if they were indeed intended for that purpose.

I hear what you're saying Cooperman, but there's a lot of conflicting information going on, and merely saying you've "used them for rallies, so it must be ok", doesn't glue it for me. The more I read and think about it, the more I need hard fact on the matter, for simple fact that I feel I may have been mis-sold something, and for my own peace of mind so far as insurance is concerned. God forbid I ever have to pay out my OWN £1mil payout due to a set of non-legal brake pads.

[redhotminilewis]

http://www.lkperform...3?setProdName=t

This site is where i got the info on he reg 90 for the 1144's where it says "Notes: No Reg 90" However, reading on the KAD site they do. Bit Of confusion going on.
I will check again to see if it does have Reg 90 because it would be unlikely for them to not do this as it takes a massive chuck out of their market.

It will have reg 90 if there is a E11 marking and 90Reg on the back. It may be jumbled in with the rest of the code on the back. http://www.juratek.com/about-r90.php Please take a look on this site and have a look at the top slide show showing the back of brake pads with the marking to see what it looks like

I will add, most high performance brake pads will have the warning "do not use on highway" for the USA. Reg 90 does not apply over there as it is a european standard so it saves against law suits in the US.

[minimissionary]

Mine have an 8 digit number below the product code. No mention of E11 or Reg 90. I'm going to phone Mintex tomorrow and get this sorted once and for all. While I'm at it, I'm gonna tell them how much of a ball ache it's been to find out about whether their product conforms to EU regulations.
I so wish I didn't give a ****. I blame my neurotic parents.

[redhotminilewis]

haha, dont worry. Is it possible to take a picture of the back of the pad for me? and the packaging.

Cheers

Lewis