124 replies to this topic

[Andrew O]

'avv it' Thanks for your point. I'm not trying to convince my self that I need a roll cage however in my opinion rally cars often under go serious crashes ( Far worse than SOME road crashes ) and if a roll cage is good enough for them then it's good enough for me.

[Frank the Tank]

But isn't the main point behind the roll cage argument that it's not just a roll cage in a rally car. They have many more safety devices/functions installed in them.

Helmets, seats, harnesses etc etc.

[Andrew O]

But isn't the main point behind the roll cage argument that it's not just a roll cage in a rally car. They have many more safety devices/functions installed in them.

Helmets, seats, harnesses etc etc.

We've gone over that all ready if you read through

[Frank the Tank]

I have read through and been following, that was aimed at you mentioning that if it's okay for rally cars it's okay for you. Perhaps I should have used the quote button instead.

If I wear the same boots as Wayne Rooney it doesn't make me as good. He has more to him than I do. (Obviously not claiming that Rooney and his boots etc have safety road crash implications before this gets jumped all over!)

Rally cars have far more than just a roll cage, I was simply re-iterating that point as your main argument for is this fact.

[AVV IT]

An excellent post as always avv it.

Blimey a compliment!! .... I certainly wasn't expecting one of those!!..... I may have to go and have a lie down now!!

I was more expecting my post to be torn to pieces as usual if I'm honest...... but hey I'm sure there is still plenty of time for that still!!

[Andrew O]

I have read through and been following, that was aimed at you mentioning that if it's okay for rally cars it's okay for you. Perhaps I should have used the quote button instead.

If I wear the same boots as Wayne Rooney it doesn't make me as good. He has more to him than I do. (Obviously not claiming that Rooney and his boots etc have safety road crash implications before this gets jumped all over!)

Rally cars have far more than just a roll cage, I was simply re-iterating that point as your main argument for is this fact.

I see your point with the helmet racing seats and harness situation but even if i don't have a roll cage and i crash there nothing to stop me hitting my head on other things e.g. passengers head, window,door pillar, steering wheel etc

[Cooperman]

I have read through and been following, that was aimed at you mentioning that if it's okay for rally cars it's okay for you. Perhaps I should have used the quote button instead.

If I wear the same boots as Wayne Rooney it doesn't make me as good. He has more to him than I do. (Obviously not claiming that Rooney and his boots etc have safety road crash implications before this gets jumped all over!)

Rally cars have far more than just a roll cage, I was simply re-iterating that point as your main argument for is this fact.

I see your point with the helmet racing seats and harness situation but even if i don't have a roll cage and i crash there nothing to stop me hitting my head on other things e.g. passengers head, window,door pillar, steering wheel etc

But that applies in all vehicles, not just Minis.
As said earlier, so long as you have all the other things like seats and belts, and they are all fitted to FIA requirements, then if you actually roll you may well be safer.

[AVV IT]

however in my opinion rally cars often under go serious crashes ( Far worse than SOME road crashes ) and if a roll cage is good enough for them then it's good enough for me.

It's true that in "SOME" cases they do, but what's more relevant is that they usually undego very different types of collisions, due to the very different environment of motorsport. (A rally car is not very likely to be involved in a head on collision with a transit van for instance). The point is that you're not driving a rally car, you are driving a road car under very different conditions and in the presence of very different hazards.

If however you genuinely believe that you are more likely to be involved in a rally style impact where the car leaves the road and rolls over etc, than the more common types of road traffic collision, then a roll cage might be a wise investment for you. Although it has to be said that thanks to its front wheel drive, low centre of gravity, wheel in each corner etc. The classic mini is probably the most forgiving car I have ever driven when it comes to the risks of leaving the road at speed and rolling over, for that reason it's probably the last road car that I would see a need to fit a roll cage in. (but that's just my opinion based on my driving experience, plenty of other people seem to be able to roll them over quite successfully with out too much difficulty!! )



In my experience the vast majority of road collisions are "rear end shunts" or "head on" collisions, (i.e. the type of incidents where the benefit of a roll cage is certainly questionable.) Roll over and "rally style" accidents are comparably rare on the open road and with the exception of those impacts that involve trees, they are also rarely serious in my experience. (Whether or not a roll cage would benefit you, or make matters worse when faced with the sudden deceleration forces of hitting a tree is certainly debatable and of course this is all anecdotal evidence based on my regular but limited experiences of road traffic collisions, statistical evidence my well tell a different story.)

but even if i don't have a roll cage and i crash there nothing to stop me hitting my head on other things e.g. passengers head, window,door pillar, steering wheel etc

This is also true, but then if you consider the already limited headroom inside a classic mini and then place a large section of tubular steel in that already limited space, you will see that you are putting an additional and very significant hazard in very close proximity to your head, that did not exist before.



As I mentioned in my previous post, you would probably be wiser to make an informed decision on whether to fit a roll cage, based on developing your own well rounded opinion about their use and taking a number of different factors into account. Not merely on the poorly perceived notion that you will always be better off in an impact if you have one fitted, or that they work well in rally cars so they will automatically work well in the very different environment a road car. If you wanted to fit a cage for aesthetic or styling reasons then I would be more inclined to say "go ahead but be aware of the safety implications", but if you plan to fit one based entirely on safety, then that is probably a bit misguided.


But as I also said in my previous post, you do seem very keen on the notion of fitting one and keen to dispel any points made to the contrary, which is why I would suggest that you have probably already decided to fit one in your own mind and are just trying to find a safety reason to justify it to yourself. If this is the case and if you really do want one, then "to hell with the safety aspects" just go ahead and fit one, plenty of people do!!

Besides, if you were that concerned with safety then surely you wouldn't own a classic mini in the first place, you would be more likely to be driving a much safer and more boring modern car with a high NCAP rating??

Edited by AVV IT, 31 August 2011 - 02:52 PM.

[skaterava]

An LDV van driver failed to brake when some lights went red and he ploughed into the back of my car at about 25mph. The guy was only about 19 years old. I didn't have head rests fitted, so my i did injure my neck a fair bit.

[Andrew O]

What was damaged ( Apart from the obvious stuff ?)

[skaterava]

What was damaged ( Apart from the obvious stuff ?)

Well, the force of the impact pushed me into the car in front as well, so the entire list of stuff damaged is as follows:

Grille
Front Bumper
Right Headlamp
Front End Panel
Bonnet
Offside Wing (Inner and Outer)
Distributor Cap
Bootlid
Entire Rear Panel
Rear Valance
Tailights
Rear Bumper

I also had a boot board (for my amps to sit on) so that was forced in, denting the rear bulkhead a touch. Inside, the force of the crash broke a tweeter off one of my speakers, and knocked the dial surround off its frame, but aside from that nothing else.

[Andrew O]

I suppose it could off been worse, Like a twisted subframe or something

[mab01uk]

I know it's not a particularly nice subject to talk about but it had to be done.

What experiences have people had in being in a 'Mini' crash. ( How good or bad )

The Mini was never subjected to a modern Euro NCAP crash test........at least not in public, although I would expect videos must exist somewhere of the testing for the side door impact bars, airbag and seatbelt pre-tensioners added to the last Mpi Mini's from 1997.
The Metro as a much later design would be expected to perform better than the much older Mini design so is interesting as a point of reference. The Metro was tested towards the end of its life in Feb 1997 as the updated Rover 100 so is probably the closest we can get to seeing how the Mini might perform in such a test. The Metro/Rover 100 scored only a 1 star rating and the bad publicity that followed meant sales dried up within days forcing BMW & Rover no choice other than to withdraw the 100 from sale with production ending in December 1997.



http://www.euroncap....00_1997/11.aspx

http://www.aronline....tm?r6storyf.htm

Edited by mab01uk, 31 August 2011 - 11:32 PM.

[MrBounce]

I've had 2 accidents in a Mini. The first was in mine when a balljoint separated at 35mph on a back country road and threw me into a hedge. The second was in my (late) friend Slick's Mini 1380 at Combe in 2000 when he decided to race a VTEC Clubby on the opening lap on a damp track with cold tyres... Slid one way, caught the back end, did the same the other way then snapped round and did a beautiful pirouette into the tyres. At one point on the circuit the guys in the Clubby said their digi speedo was showing 105mph so we weren't hanging about. My shoulder hurt for a while after it!

The best bit was the conversation in the car after impact:

"You alright Bounce?"
"Yeah... You alright Slick?"
"Yeah... Oops!"

Failed balljoint crash (Eventually had 2 new wings, a panels, bonnet, front panel and grille.



Slick's crashed Mini

[retroracer1275]

ive just orderd a new seat so i dont have the problem of hitting my head on the cage or against the passengers head...