40 replies to this topic

[Revan239]

Also there's the daunting worry of the lack of petrol getting to the plugs, could this be the pump? My grandad suggest that I remove the fuel pipe at the back of the carb and turn it over to see if fuel is getting yo the carb would this thin out the possibilities?

[dklawson]

If the motor spun fast enough to quickly snap the Bendix unit towards the motor flange as shown in the videos in the thread linked above, then I would not start by replacing the starter.  I would look for other problem areas.

 

The starter draws a huge amount of current so dirty or damaged connections in the wiring can seriously hamper its performance.  Go to the boot.  Remove the earth cable between the battery and boot floor.  Clean both the boot floor around the bolt hole and the cable terminal to shiny bare metal.  With the earth cable removed, now remove the positive supply cable from the battery.  Clean both the battery posts and the cable end terminal. There are wire brushes made just for cleaning battery terminals and the battery terminals on the cable ends.  Apply dielectric grease to all the cleaned terminals and posts and reassemble.  Connect the earth cable to the battery last.

 

Try to start the engine and see if it is better.  If it is not better, look for the earth strap between the car body and engine block.  These were in a couple of different locations over the years so I cannot tell you where it is on your car.  However, it should be on the right side of the car (your left as you stand in front of the car looking for the cable).  As with the cables in the boot, make sure that the terminals are clean as the places they attach to.  Also like the boot, when you have cleaned everything, apply dielectric grease and refit the cable and the anchor bolts. 

 

Try to start the engine again.  If the starter is still slow... look at the starter mounting bolts and the surface on the aluminum casting where it mounts.  Use new bright and shiny lock washers if you have some.  As before, clean everything and apply dielectric grease during reassembly.

 

Try again.  If it is still slow turning the engine over, put the gearbox in neutral.  Take an old screwdriver (one you are willing to damage a little bit) and use it to bridge the two threaded terminals on the starter solenoid.  (Do NOT let the metal of the screwdriver blade touch anything other than the two solenoid terminals).  There will be a large spark.  Do not let this startle you.  When you bridge the threaded terminals you are connecting the starter to the battery without using the contacts inside the solenoid.  If the motor spins fast now, replace the solenoid as its contacts are worn out.  If the motor is still slow... you may want to try another starter that is known-good.  However, buy a new starter as a last resort as it is the most exensive component that could have failed.

 

Of course... you could start with the last test... bridging the solenoid contacts.  For best performance though... you will want clean connections from the battery all the way to the starter motor.

 

EDIT:  Sorry, I missed your post about the fuel pump.  Does your engine have an electric fuel pump or mechanical?  If it is a mechanical pump it is not going to do very much until you resolve the issue of the starter motor not working well.  The mechanical pump only works when the engine is turning.   If it is an electric pump you would know because you will hear it when the key is in the run position but the engine is not running.  An SU electric pump will go "tick-tick-tick" until the carb float bowl is full.  After that it will go silent.  An aftermarket electric pump is going to make a continuous noise (clicking or whirring) until you turn the key off.  Regardless, the SU carb will not "pump" fuel into the intake manifold when set properly.  Fuel is sucked into the engine while the engine is turning (drawing air through the throat of the carb).  As with the fuel pump, you are not going to see a lot of fuel get into the engine until you can turn the engine over on that starter motor.

Edited by dklawson, 30 January 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[Revan239]

Thanks for all the suggestions but I have tried all of them, I recently cleaned the earth strap in the engine bay & the boot strap as well to try and make the car start better this was back when my alternator packed in. A neighbour suggested I try the briging on the solenoid did exactly what you described but it still turns slow, so if it's not the starter that makes the engine turn slow then what could it be?


Thanks for the fuel pump advice & it's mechanical I consulted the manual and it said that the pump works of the turning of the engine, would an electric pump be more use ?

[KernowCooper]

The engine is not reliant on the fuel pump to supply fuel to enable the engine to start, there is sufficient fuel in the float bowl to do this.

 

Also worth looking at the brushes in the starter and the commutator to ensure they are not worn/burnt, you can have a starter that bench test with no load that fails when asked to turn over the engine

[dklawson]

Good point.  It is certainly worth looking at the inside of the starter and cleaning its commutator.  See that old thread I linked to previously.  The OP of that thread posted pictures and videos of his struggling starter.  It is also worth mentioning that if your battery is nearly flat the the starter will turn very slowly.  Have you tried starting the engine with another car connected with jumper cables?

 

I was not suggesting that the engine wouldn't start due to the fuel pump being mechanical.  What I was trying to convey was that the pump delivery rate is not going to look "fast" or "strong" until the engine is able to turn over quickly on the starter.

[Tubby1987]

It does sound exactly like the problem I had revan, be worth putting a new one on. When I bought my starter at the weekend I was told that they sell quite a lot of inertia starters so they must need replacing a good few times in the minis life :)
Let us know if you get it going. Replace it yourself it's a pretty easy job. Just take your grille off and it's 2 bolts holding it on. Will need a short spanner for the bottom bolt though :)

[Revan239]

Dklawson I have been inside my motor and cleaned it and no obvious diffrence has been noticed in the turnover speed and yes I have had my dad's car helping to jump start it and the speed was still slow and the whole fuel pump thing is crippiling my car atm I haven't had it running in about a month I tried to start it the other night and no matter what I did she would not turnover I have to take time at the weekend to look at her properly, and thank you ken row and tubby for the info muchly appreciated!

[dklawson]

I hate to see anyone have to buy an expensive part without exhausting the cheap things first.  I am sorry the cheap fixes did not correct the problem. 

[Revan239]

Perfectly alright not your fault, it's an original part and even I'm astonished it's still working ! I still have the imminent fuelling problem like I said in my previous post when I was checking the plugs to see if they sparked I noticed they weren't 'wet' with petrol because they should of been soaking in the stuff if it had turned over correctly. Any ideas what part of the fuel system it could be ?

[dklawson]

First get the starter addressed so the engine can turn over easily.  Removing the spark plugs will make it easier to spin the engine as no compression will develop with the plugs out.  With the plugs out, disconnect the fuel line going into the carb as you mentioned earlier and aim the open end of the hose into a catch jar.  Have an assistant turn the engine over on the starter and watch for fuel being pumped into your catch jar.  If no fuel is moved, check the simple things first... like make sure there is fuel in the tank.  Also, hunt for and replace any old fuel filters that may have been installed inline anywhere from the tank to the carb.

 

If the pump moves fuel into your catch jar in steady spurts, turn your attention to the carb, particularly if the car has been out of use and standing for a while.  Old fuel lines can shed crumbs of rubber and old fuel can turn into a varnish/gum both of which can block or stick the carb's float valve closed.  If you feel it is necessary to examine the inside of the carb and/or work on the float valve, post back and one of us will explain the steps involved.  Whatever you do, if the engine was running OK before, do not alter the mixture adjusting screws.  Save any work with the mixture until after you have examined, cleaned, and set the float valve.

[Revan239]

Okay I'll get on that first thing tommorrow and I'll let you know what's happening, thanks a lot!

[Tubby1987]

Any joy yet with any of the problems?

[Revan239]

Eh no not yet not had the time going to give it a go today see how things go

[Revan239]

Could I have the step by step removal of the carb ?

[cal844]

its easy,

first, remove the standar air box (if fitted)... K'n'N filters can be left mounted to the carb to remove/ refit)

next you need to remove the choke and throttle cables from the carb,

then remove the return spring from the trottle linkage

then undo the carb mounting bolts(2 or 4 half inch nuts at washers)

then undo the fuel lines from the float bowl and remove the carb from the car

 

i might have missed something, as its a long time since i removed one...