21 replies to this topic

[smitims]

Hello

I need to replace the front end of my 1275GT after a collision.
From what i can tell the outer wings seem to be fine on both sides (minor dent which got knocked out) , the inner wings have crumped slightly, and the frontpanel is distorted.
I'm a complete amateur at all this, my plan was to cut off the front piece, with the inner wings, and then buy the replacement panels to either weld on myself (never welded) or ask my local mini garage what the cost just of welding those on would cost.
Im planning on doind the painting muself after.
My questions are:
Is it posssible to remove and reweld those parts without removing the outer wings, or the engine?
And how much roughly would a garage charge just to weld the front panel and inner wings on?
The whole point of doing it myself was to learn, and to save money, but i dont want to buy a welder only to find i cant weld and have to pay for it anyway!! Especially if the engine needs taking out etc, i cant do that because im not in a garage.
Any advice is much appreciated!!
Tristan

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[sonikk4]

OUCH!! to be honest you will need to strip off both wings and front panel then you can properly assess the damage. With the engine out it will make life easier to repair everything.

Complete inner wing replacement just for the panel alone is expensive and for a garage to do it will be very expensive. I know on a roundnose mini you can buy the front sections of the inner wing but i am unsure about a clubman inner wing.

Now this is a stab in the dark but i think to replace everything and paint as well you will not get change out of £2k probably closer to £2.5k at a bodyshop.
They maybe able to straighten the inner wings as they are not the strongest of items.

You have to take the outer wings off to do the inners i'm afraid, you can leave the engine in as all of the spot welds that attach the inner wings to the car can be seen from the outer side.The scuttle close out panel will need to come off as well as the scuttle ends. Just to give you an idea of what is involved here is a picture of one of the inner wings i did on my sons roundnose



If you have a look at Rich's thread he his currently restoring a Clubman and this page shows the inner wing replacement
http://www.theminifo...x...0&start=120

Edited by sonikk4, 31 May 2011 - 03:31 PM.

[smitims]

OUCH!! to be honest you will need to strip off both wings and front panel then you can properly assess the damage. With the engine out it will make life easier to repair everything.

Complete inner wing replacement just for the panel alone is expensive and for a garage to do it will be very expensive. I know on a roundnose mini you can buy the front sections of the inner wing but i am unsure about a clubman inner wing.

Now this is a stab in the dark but i think to replace everything and paint as well you will not get change out of £2k probably closer to £2.5k at a bodyshop.
They maybe able to straighten the inner wings as they are not the strongest of items.

You have to take the outer wings off to do the inners i'm afraid, you can leave the engine in as all of the spot welds that attach the inner wings to the car can be seen from the outer side.The scuttle close out panel will need to come off as well as the scuttle ends. Just to give you an idea of what is involved here is a picture of one of the inner wings i did on my sons roundnose



If you have a look at Rich's thread he his currently restoring a Clubman and this page shows the inner wing replacement
http://www.theminifo...x...0&start=120

Thanks for all your advice!!
Do you know about the front aswell? would the wings need taking off to replace the front?
So if i could staighten the inner wings, could i replace the front without having to remove the outer wings?
Hell maybe i can even straighten out the front...
I literally have no idea what i'm doing, so the thought of cutting parts off to weld new ones on sounds a bit daunting...
Maybe i should buy a cheap panel beating set and have a go at staightening it up.. I'm just not sure whats the best route to take!
At least now i kno i'd need to take the outers off to get to the inners!

[sonikk4]

You could change the front panel without taking the wings off but to be honest judging by your picture the drivers wing looks worse than the passenger one which appears to be creased.

Now maybe a good panel beater could straighten the wings etc but the front panel looks to far gone. To be perfectly blunt with you i would spend the money and buy new panels and do the job properly.

Get yourself a second hand welder and teach yourself to weld and if you can stretch to it a spot welder which will make life somewhat easier. None of this will be cheap and it will be time consuming. There are a lot of lads on the forum who have taught themselves to weld and have made good progress with their own projects.

Its like riding a bike once you have learnt you never forget.

[smitims]

You're a star mate! I needed just one person to give me sound advice and i'vegot it!
Funnily enough that picture doesnt do it justice, the worst wing was the passenger, thatlittle dent has already been banged out with my fist! The drivers wing is not damaged AT ALL!
Its literally just the front panel, inner wings, bumper.
I'm gonna have a go at straightening the inner wings myself, and cutting the front panel off.
Then I'm going to take your advice and buy a second hand welder and learn to weld. I'v done a small amount of lead welding, which isnt quite the same but welding none the less. The only reason its not quite so straightforward is because i'm doing all this on the front drive! should be fun!
Thank you for all your time and advice!

[sonikk4]

You're a star mate! I needed just one person to give me sound advice and i'vegot it!
Funnily enough that picture doesnt do it justice, the worst wing was the passenger, thatlittle dent has already been banged out with my fist! The drivers wing is not damaged AT ALL!
Its literally just the front panel, inner wings, bumper.
I'm gonna have a go at straightening the inner wings myself, and cutting the front panel off.
Then I'm going to take your advice and buy a second hand welder and learn to weld. I'v done a small amount of lead welding, which isnt quite the same but welding none the less. The only reason its not quite so straightforward is because i'm doing all this on the front drive! should be fun!
Thank you for all your time and advice!

Not a problem, you can get panel beating kits from machinemart for about £30 or so which does the job. If you are very careful drilling off the old spot welds then stripping the front end and saving what you can will help no end. Get yourself a good scraper that you hit with a hammer to help split the spot welds. Yo can buy spot weld remover drill bits off ebay and the like.

Welder wise something like a Clarke 135TE Turbo is more than enough for your car, steer away from SIP been there killed one very quickly. Spot welders sre not cheap even second hand but do come up on ebay. DO NOT GO GASLESS its a pain and the welds look awful. Go for a gas one and then sort out a hire bottle of Argon/CO2 mix. A good quality reactive welding mask as well.
A 4 1/2" grinder goggles and ear protection. Use 1mm stainless steel cutting discs and then a flapper style discs for knocking down welds

Get yourself some C clamps, clecos and their pliers (5/32) to help clamp things together. Also a gazebo to keep the rain off would help. Some zinc rich weld through primer (Upol available from Halfords)

There are other things you may need but ask questions and we will do our best to answer them.

[ANON]

have you got a pic of the inner wings and front/slam panel?

[midridge2]

The biggest mistake novices make is to cut off the panels.
any bodyshop can use the damaged front end to pull out the inner wings and outer wings and straighten them, in your case i would try and find a experienced panel beater who will do it on the fiddle for you.
the inner wings and outer wings and front panel can be repaired but you may have to replace the slam panel.
no need to remove the engine.

[smitims]

You're a star mate! I needed just one person to give me sound advice and i'vegot it!
Funnily enough that picture doesnt do it justice, the worst wing was the passenger, thatlittle dent has already been banged out with my fist! The drivers wing is not damaged AT ALL!
Its literally just the front panel, inner wings, bumper.
I'm gonna have a go at straightening the inner wings myself, and cutting the front panel off.
Then I'm going to take your advice and buy a second hand welder and learn to weld. I'v done a small amount of lead welding, which isnt quite the same but welding none the less. The only reason its not quite so straightforward is because i'm doing all this on the front drive! should be fun!
Thank you for all your time and advice!

Not a problem, you can get panel beating kits from machinemart for about £30 or so which does the job. If you are very careful drilling off the old spot welds then stripping the front end and saving what you can will help no end. Get yourself a good scraper that you hit with a hammer to help split the spot welds. Yo can buy spot weld remover drill bits off ebay and the like.

Welder wise something like a Clarke 135TE Turbo is more than enough for your car, steer away from SIP been there killed one very quickly. Spot welders sre not cheap even second hand but do come up on ebay. DO NOT GO GASLESS its a pain and the welds look awful. Go for a gas one and then sort out a hire bottle of Argon/CO2 mix. A good quality reactive welding mask as well.
A 4 1/2" grinder goggles and ear protection. Use 1mm stainless steel cutting discs and then a flapper style discs for knocking down welds

Get yourself some C clamps, clecos and their pliers (5/32) to help clamp things together. Also a gazebo to keep the rain off would help. Some zinc rich weld through primer (Upol available from Halfords)

There are other things you may need but ask questions and we will do our best to answer them.

Cheers mate.
Just bought a panel beating kit from machien mart! that should please the neighbours when it arrives! lol
I'm going to have to do a bit tinkering, i really want to avoid welding!! lool I just know that the minute I cut something, theres going to be welding!! So i'm going to see what magic i can work with the panel beaters, get some pictures up here aswell. The picture you see there was literally right after the accident, im suprised there isnt a tear drop on the camera lens ;(
I'v got more recent pics i just need to find the cable to upload from camera! I've been stripping here down for the inevitable respray after the front is sorted.
Once i've done some work i'll get some pics up and see what you guys think, and more importanlty i need wise words of wisdom!!
I will have plenty of questions regards to the engine further along the line, i've got a feeling the clutch pedal is stiff.. she's been sat bored for 4 or 5 years now..
Anyway sorry to keep going, PICS IN NEXT FEW DAYS!
Thanks again
Tristan

[smitims]

have you got a pic of the inner wings and front/slam panel?

Hi mate, I'm going to have to look in the haynes manual to check what a slam panel is! lol
Not going to lie, this is all new to me!
Once i find my camera cable i'll upload a heap of new pics.
Many thanks for your help.
tristan

[smitims]

The biggest mistake novices make is to cut off the panels.
any bodyshop can use the damaged front end to pull out the inner wings and outer wings and straighten them, in your case i would try and find a experienced panel beater who will do it on the fiddle for you.
the inner wings and outer wings and front panel can be repaired but you may have to replace the slam panel.
no need to remove the engine.

/
Hi there,
money's abit tight right now so i've bought a panel kit... hopefully it pays off and doesnt end up a mahooosive ******* up involving paying for a panel beater to sort it out.. lol
Hopefully i can manage something with that, if not i will follow your advice and seek out a professional panel beater near me.
Thanks for your advice mate, much appreciated!
Tristan

[ANON]

slam panel is the bit under the bonnet, goes from one inner wing to the other.
looking at the pic you've posted i don't think the damage is as bad as you imagine it to be.

[valve bounce]

what i would suggest is to buy a new/ second hand bonnet, fit it then you have a good idea how far back the front has moved. then get a scissor jack of bottle jack and some bits of wood, put the jack against something solid (crossmember were the brake and clutch cylinders are) and then put a bit of wood in the gap between the jack and slam pannel then carefully put some pressure on using the jack to try and push the slam pannel to the correct postion, just do alittle bit at a time and keep checking the fit of the bonnet. MAKE SURE NOT TO GO TO FAR.

other than that just be patient and take your time, very good results can be achieved using simple methords and basic equipment

good luck rob

[smitims]

slam panel is the bit under the bonnet, goes from one inner wing to the other.
looking at the pic you've posted i don't think the damage is as bad as you imagine it to be.

You know what mate, the more and more i read on this forum the more i agree with you and think its not too bad!! Fuingers crossed anyway!
The slam panel (look at me talkin like a pro) is pretty bent, its got kinks in it.. I relly need to get these pics on here because it explains it all.. I've already straightened up the front grill which doesnt look too bad.. even with imperfections i tell myself it just adds character
I'll get the pics up in the next few days, thanks very much i appreciate the help!

[smitims]

what i would suggest is to buy a new/ second hand bonnet, fit it then you have a good idea how far back the front has moved. then get a scissor jack of bottle jack and some bits of wood, put the jack against something solid (crossmember were the brake and clutch cylinders are) and then put a bit of wood in the gap between the jack and slam pannel then carefully put some pressure on using the jack to try and push the slam pannel to the correct postion, just do alittle bit at a time and keep checking the fit of the bonnet. MAKE SURE NOT TO GO TO FAR.

other than that just be patient and take your time, very good results can be achieved using simple methords and basic equipment

good luck rob

Hi Rob,
I think thats a bloody good idea! lol
I had thought about that, for a second, then thought "naaaaah, probably end up breaking something and making it worse!"
Iv just got to verify exactly where the crossmember you mentioned is! im sure my darling haynes manual will provide the goods!!
I wont be having a tinker till thursday now i dont have the time, but i'll keep you posted on what happens!
Thanks for your time and advice mate,
Tristan