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1971 Mini Cooper S 1275 Or Not


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#1 nibsd

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 06:11 PM

hi i am looking at buying a Mini Cooper 1275, 1971 mk 3 model but would like to know if the car is legitimate or not before i part with the money, here are some of the facts i know:

I have the reg no, of which i have entered into the DVLA website but it states i need to contact them,

The gentleman says it states on the log book Austin Morris Cooper 1275 does this mean its not an S model but the engine number is 12h of which is high compression and has the original dynamo on it and not a alternator.

I also have the commisioning plate number but where can i find out what model it is as he says its an 'S' model but is it?

I am awhere that the car was reshelled on a mkIV/V shell and not a mk3 of which affects the value, it also has the twin tanks and 130mph speedo but am fully awhere that these could have been added at a later date.First registered in 1971 and 2 owners from new. The car was reshelled several years ago and is currently painted green with a white roof. The original colour of the car was Teal Blue. All window glass is original and is security etched with the registration mark. A heated rear screen is fitted.

The interior is original to the car with the exception of the front seats which have been replaced with period corbeau GT seats in black cloth. The rear seats and door cards are limeflower in colour. The car has the correct 130 mph speedometer and is fitted with an Elliot rev counter.

Running gear has been mostly refurbished during the past 10 years with new discs, ball joints, C.V.joints, pads, wheel bearings, clutch, gearbox main bearings, engine mountings, subframe mountings, subframe, fuel pump etc. The front subframe has been seam welded.

The car has been converted to a dry suspension set up which is adjustable, has twin tanks and the original bootboard and is fitted with a period rear screen wiper.

The engine is of the correct type for a Cooper ‘S’ but is not the original unit. It runs well and holds good oil pressure throughout the rev range and is smooth throughout – right up to the indicated maximum speed of 90mph.Twin 11/2” SU carburettors are fitted with pancake air filters,

All chromework on the car is good with many parts having been replaced, mostly with genuine Leyland items --- Lucas H4 Halogen headlights are fitted.

The car has is current M.O.T., which expires in April 2012, and is used regularly – mainly in the dry weather, it drives well and is easily capable of keeping up with modern traffic --- general condition is considered to be 2 and a little time spent on the car would improve it further – there is a little rust and one or two dents.

Generally the car is very presentable and the period Dunlop alloys currently fitted enhance this further---- a set of five 41/2” steel reverse rims and tyres come with the car.

The car was bought as a project for myself and my son but we both feel that it would now be better off with someone who is prepared to spend time on it. Included with the car are a pair of replacement mark 3 wings, steering rack, steel sump guard and also included in the asking price is a complete, genuine 998 cc Cooper engine and gearbox with all ancillaries which was running well several years ago when it was bought as a spare for our car. The car this unit came out of was registered in 1969 and was being scrapped on account of its very poor bodily condition. It includes Cooper Speedomete




Is there anyway of finding out what the exact model is and roughly what sort of money i should pay for this it is advertised at £6500


All your help is greatly appreciated as i bought a 1970 mini cooper about a year ago and got totally ripped off and lost a great deal of money which i don't have and don't want the same thing to happen again hence why the questions and doing my homework.


Many Thanks
Nibs

Edited by nibsd, 01 May 2011 - 08:45 PM.


#2 ANON

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 06:26 PM

if it's been re shelled i don't see it as a £6,500 car. plus would want to see paperwork for the re shell otherwise i would be very sceptical about it.

#3 mk1mad

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 07:12 PM

run

#4 Cooperman

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 07:15 PM

You need to look in John Purnell's definitive book and that will tell you what to look for.
If it has a later shell with different front sub-frame mountings that will mean it can't really be classed as a Cooper 'S'. A true 'S' will have twin-bolt front sub-frame tower mountings and the sub-frame solidly bolted in at floor and front panel with the original type fixings.
Then there is the nengine. It must have a genuine 'S' engine which nwill be 1275 but with cam-chest covers 'down the back' behind the exhaust manifold. If it has those covers, check that the stroke is 3.2" by poking a pencil down a plug holoe and measuring the ndifference between TDC and BDC. The head must have 10 studs and one bolt, not just 9 studs. Even if this checks out, it could be a 1098 cc engine made to appear as a 1275 lump as the 1098 is also long stroke and has cam-chest covers.
The gearbox will have the aluminium remote gear-change linkage not the rod type. The drive shafts will have Hardy-Spicer inner couplings.
There are some nasty 'ringers' out there, so be careful.

#5 wile e coyote

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 07:22 PM

It really depends what you want and what's important to you - so a devils advocate moment - your average Mk3 with S brakes sporting an MG metro lump is for all intents and purposes a Mk3 S... so you could spend a LOT less for the same result performance and equipment wise - if you're looking for fun and a bit of an investment - then run as said above.... - an S with a reshell is arguably no longer an S but a custom sum of its parts - not saying it'd be a bad car - just that it's lost it's - soul, for want of a better word

For investment the Mk3 S was a lesser beastie than its forebears - still a good car that has yet to find its market peak but just not the best..... just my 2p worth

#6 nibsd

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 07:41 PM

just spoken to the bloke and the alarms bells are starting to ring when he said that he has a spare 998 cooper engine incase anything happened to this one, he says it has the cooper 11 stud head also. Once again all thank you

#7 Cooperman

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 07:42 PM

For that sort of money (c. £6500) you could just about get a very genuine Innocenti Mini-Cooper 1300 which, really, is the last of the genuine Mini Coopers.
An Export model would have a 1275GT type engine, but with Cooper 'S' cam, 11-stud head, 7.5" 'S' brakes and 4.5" wide 10" very special wheels. Plus, of course, that absolutely fabulous interior and dash (check it out on Google). I have a 1973 Inno Export and it is superb. They are all left-hand-drive and if you see a RHD one it has been converted. Mine was RHD, but I've put it back to original.
The Inno has a stronger following than the late Mk. 3 'S' and is a better bet for investment. It's easier to define their originality as well.
Just a recommendation really.
PM me if you are interested in one.

Edited by Cooperman, 01 May 2011 - 07:43 PM.


#8 nibsd

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 07:50 PM

For that sort of money (c. £6500) you could just about get a very genuine Innocenti Mini-Cooper 1300 which, really, is the last of the genuine Mini Coopers.
An Export model would have a 1275GT type engine, but with Cooper 'S' cam, 11-stud head, 7.5" 'S' brakes and 4.5" wide 10" very special wheels. Plus, of course, that absolutely fabulous interior and dash (check it out on Google). I have a 1973 Inno Export and it is superb. They are all left-hand-drive and if you see a RHD one it has been converted. Mine was RHD, but I've put it back to original.
The Inno has a stronger following than the late Mk. 3 'S' and is a better bet for investment. It's easier to define their originality as well.
Just a recommendation really.
PM me if you are interested in one.


Thanks all your help it is really appreciated i was after a mini 1275 gt, but when i saw this i thought about this one i thought all my Christmas's had come at once as i never thought i would be able to afford one, but now asking all the enthusiasts as we are but some with more knowledge than i think that this is somewhat iffy.

#9 ANON

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Posted 01 May 2011 - 11:45 PM

is it advertised on line? if so do you have a link to the ad?

#10 joe90gt

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 06:44 AM

I'd run a mile - there are way too many doubts about it - as wile says if your after fun spend it on modifying a standard mini - if your after a genuine Cooper in good nick you may have to spend a lot more time looking around and you prolly wont get anything that doesnt need major work for £6.5k

#11 MiniLuke

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Posted 02 May 2011 - 07:36 AM

That "Cooper S" sound like one that someone was trying to sell about 6 months ago on ebay. I'll have a look for the link.

#12 Andy G

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 04:30 PM

please post the link up, as a genuine car or not, it does sound interesting.

But regardless a reshelled car with dubiuos provenance (and as has been said above) and one that has to many doubts being cast should really be avoided. Especially if you want to avoid being done again.

#13 62S

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 07:01 PM

QUOTE (nibsd @ May 1 2011, 07:11 PM)
I have the reg no, of which i have entered into the DVLA website but it states i need to contact them


This is most likely because they want to inspect this car, as you don't hardly any of the original car you can pretty much say goodbye to the registration/I.D.


That is complete and utter rubbish. If a vehicle needs a VIC it will tell you on the DVLA enquiry.

You're best option is to contact the Mk 3 S Registrar at the Mini Cooper Register and ask if the car is known to them.

#14 nibsd

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 08:42 PM

is it advertised on line? if so do you have a link to the ad?



Hi Sorry for not replying sooner but was enjoying the bank holiday, the car was advertised in a mini magazine that i bought and thought it was too good to be true, and by the amount of replies its is

Thank you

#15 nibsd

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 08:45 PM

That "Cooper S" sound like one that someone was trying to sell about 6 months ago on ebay. I'll have a look for the link.


it would be great to see the link if it was advertised before on ebay




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