30 replies to this topic

[AVV IT]

Please can we stop calling these modifications by Stage numbers. Im just getting totally confused by it all.

I agree completely in that these so called "stages" are far from a precise science, but whilst the industry continues to market it's products under this rather subjective terminology, then it's continued use is somewhat inevitable. Regardless of how poor a system it is, making a plea on a forum for people to stop using it, when it really is the only universally accepted classification system in use, is rather like the proverbial "urinating in the wind"

[AndyMiniMad.]

Please can we stop calling these modifications by Stage numbers. Im just getting totally confused by it all.

I agree completely in that these so called "stages" are far from a precise science, but whilst the industry continues to market it's products under this rather subjective terminology, then it's continued use is somewhat inevitable. Regardless of how poor a system it is, making a plea on a forum for people to stop using it, when it really is the only universally accepted classification system in use, is rather like the proverbial "urinating in the wind"

Yeah.. you are absolutelly right.. Its all there is for people to distinguish their engines from others. I think mine is a stage 9 by the way. (well why not?) I like to be different. LOL. I have had my daily rant now.

[twrminisport]

Well mine is stage infinity plus one.

It really is a useless and redundant term.

[Cooperman]

A lot of sense being talked on this thread.
I feel sorry for the guy who buys a high-compression 'Stage xx' head and finds the improvement is not what he hoped for when the reason is that the engine had low compression pistons, so his CR is still quite low. I've actually seen this on an engine with a "Stage 2" head and 21251 pistons which sat 0.066" down the bore giving an extra 6.5 cc of combustion volume. No wonder it didn't really go!

[JustSteve]

Im glad somebody started a thread like this, just so I can let you all know, how ridiculous this 'stage' thing is IMO.

Nobody uses the same definitions as the next place, it just annoys me.

[maggies_minder]

so whats the solution??
people who arent engine specialists and just want a bit more poke out of their minis, who havent got a clue about the ins and outs of an engine are going to struggle, they only have the numbers to go by...

[Southy]

As above a numbers system is needed for the lesser mechanical minded people to understand as to what exactly it is that they are buying. These stage's don't only appear in the Mini scene it happens all over in the modding world I've recenlt been pricing up a stage 2 turbo upgrade for a vRS and it varies from each company as to what you get for your money but only very slightly.

My thoughts on the stages are this:

Stage 1 - Standard is just a recon'd head as techincally the CR is raised slightly due to being skimmed
Stage 2 - Slight smoothing of the port's and chambers, STD valve size's
Stage 3 - Mild port and chamber work larger 35mm inlet valves
Stage 4 - Heavy port and chamber work, bronze guides, 35mm inlet/31mm exhaust rimflow valves
Stage 5 - Sleeved push rod hole's port's taken to largest size, chamber's reshaped, bronze guides, 37mm inlets 31mm exhaust race valves

[AndyMiniMad.]

Southy... saying that lesser mecahnically minded people need these numbered stages so they know exactly what they are getting makes sense only if the people selling this stuff all make the staged heads to the same spec. Of course this will never happen as they are in competition with each other. I have seen peoples interpretation of these stages and they differ quite a lot. Including yours!!
Not having a go at you mate, but simply reitterating my point. (make it the same and easy for the novice to understand, or stop it.)

Edited by AndyMiniMad., 24 March 2011 - 08:50 AM.

[twrminisport]

As above a numbers system is needed for the lesser mechanical minded people to understand as to what exactly it is that they are buying. These stage's don't only appear in the Mini scene it happens all over in the modding world I've recenlt been pricing up a stage 2 turbo upgrade for a vRS and it varies from each company as to what you get for your money but only very slightly.

My thoughts on the stages are this:

Stage 1 - Standard is just a recon'd head as techincally the CR is raised slightly due to being skimmed
Stage 2 - Slight smoothing of the port's and chambers, STD valve size's
Stage 3 - Mild port and chamber work larger 35mm inlet valves
Stage 4 - Heavy port and chamber work, bronze guides, 35mm inlet/31mm exhaust rimflow valves
Stage 5 - Sleeved push rod hole's port's taken to largest size, chamber's reshaped, bronze guides, 37mm inlets 31mm exhaust race valves

Nice idea in theory but this doesnt work for different engine sizes. This is not applicable for 803,850,997, 998, 1071, 1098,And those are factory standard sizes for people never mind your 1380's and overbore configs

[TfcIan]

The only stage I understand is stage 1. For the rest of the stages, I don't have a clue. But, if I was going to spend so much on tuning kit, I'd ask other people for help first. I don't understand why anybody would spend money for a stage 3 kit if they didn't have a clue what was in it or if they could get better for their money. Surely that's what a community is for? Getting help off other people and learning from their experience.

[Cooperman]

It is difficult for someone who is, shall we say "less technical", but who wants their Mini to go a bit better to know how to achieve this. That's what the companies selling these kits rely on really.
Maybe we could do a list of things which could be expected with each 'Stage', then a prospective buyer could compare his proposed kit to our list to give some idea of whether or not the kit represented 'value for money'. That might help to avoid disappointment when buying, say, a so-called 'Stage 2' kit which was no better than someone else's 'Stage 1' except for an increased price.
How does that sound and who will volunteer to compile it.
Maybe we shouldn't encourage the term 'Stage...', but use the expression 'Tuning Level A, - B, - C, etc' to show the differences.
Thus 'Level A' might be a better exhaust, air filter, and whatever, and so on.
Just an idea for consideration.

[AndyMiniMad.]

It is difficult for someone who is, shall we say "less technical", but who wants their Mini to go a bit better to know how to achieve this. That's what the companies selling these kits rely on really.
Maybe we could do a list of things which could be expected with each 'Stage', then a prospective buyer could compare his proposed kit to our list to give some idea of whether or not the kit represented 'value for money'. That might help to avoid disappointment when buying, say, a so-called 'Stage 2' kit which was no better than someone else's 'Stage 1' except for an increased price.
How does that sound and who will volunteer to compile it.
Maybe we shouldn't encourage the term 'Stage...', but use the expression 'Tuning Level A, - B, - C, etc' to show the differences.
Thus 'Level A' might be a better exhaust, air filter, and whatever, and so on.
Just an idea for consideration.

Thats a good idea!! but what happens when we get to Z? Ha Ha.. Maybe its best to leave it the way it is, Im sure as people become more mechanically aware they will be able to specify exactly what they want from the suppliers. And if they cant be bothered to understand what they paying for then I guess we should leave them to be happy with talking "STAGES"..

[minifan333]

I had stage 3 minisport on original spi.
Nothing special without a good elaboration..

[AndyMiniMad.]

I had stage 3 minisport on original spi.
Nothing special without a good elaboration..

Please feel free to elaborate!! im not sure what a stage 3 minisport is...Are you talking about your cylinder head? or your engine in general? what is your spec as a stage 3? So do people see what Im getting at yet?
Sorry im not having a go at you directly, but when you say stage 3 what do you mean???

Edited by AndyMiniMad., 29 March 2011 - 10:12 PM.

[olly917]

Ok I've being looking around at different heads and been wondering the same! Seen these on ebay so opinions pls

http://cgi.ebay.co.u...e#ht_3003wt_842


http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item4aa7a67947

Both by the same company so, any good )