I am converting from some knackered old metro 4 pot calipers to alloy minisport 4 pot brake calipers. I have new mini hubs, new bearings, the existing metro (I think..) drive flanges and new 8.4 vented disks. Problem is that when it's all assembled on the drive shaft the calipers won't fit as the brake disk appears to be about 8mm to far out from the hub. I think this means that the drive flanges I have fitted to the disks are metro ones and not mini ones, but I don't have a set of mini ones to compare them with. Can someone confirm before I buy some new mini drive flanges?
Drive Flange Differences?
Started by
jamie@thefatgarage
, Jan 01 2011 05:39 PM
17 replies to this topic
#2
Tupers
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Posted 01 January 2011 - 06:00 PM
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong but metro drive flanged and 4 rectangular sections that stand out on the face of the flange that the wheel mounts to where as Mini flanges are totally smooth. Other than that I'm not sure what the differences are, how close the your drive flanges look to these.
Alternatively have you tried fitting the metro caliper back up to see if it lines up. You might find the Mini Sport ones need a spacer on the hub to push them further out toward the disc.
Alternatively have you tried fitting the metro caliper back up to see if it lines up. You might find the Mini Sport ones need a spacer on the hub to push them further out toward the disc.
Edited by Tupers, 01 January 2011 - 06:01 PM.
#3
jamie@thefatgarage
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Posted 01 January 2011 - 06:20 PM
The flanges don't have the 4 bits sticking out.
That crossed my mind but the calipers mount on the inside of the hub, so a spacer would move the caliper further in towards the hub (worse..)
As you can see from the pics the disk is quite a way out from the hub. This pic in a metro hub, but it's the same on the new mini hubs. The metro caliper still fits as the distance from the inner edge of the path of the disk on the metro caliper to its mounting flange is greater (see pic - the mounting flanges are lined up but the gap where the disk goes is further out on the old caliper..)
I'm at a total loss! As far as I can see the only thing that sets where the disk is in relation to the caliper is the drive flange as it sits directly onto the wheel bearing. I thought the mini one might have less stuck inwards towards the bearing thus making the disk sit closer to the hub. The other option would seem to be a spacer in between the disk and the flange to move it inwards, but never seen or heard of such a thing.
I hope this makes some sense as its difficult to explain.
That crossed my mind but the calipers mount on the inside of the hub, so a spacer would move the caliper further in towards the hub (worse..)
As you can see from the pics the disk is quite a way out from the hub. This pic in a metro hub, but it's the same on the new mini hubs. The metro caliper still fits as the distance from the inner edge of the path of the disk on the metro caliper to its mounting flange is greater (see pic - the mounting flanges are lined up but the gap where the disk goes is further out on the old caliper..)
I'm at a total loss! As far as I can see the only thing that sets where the disk is in relation to the caliper is the drive flange as it sits directly onto the wheel bearing. I thought the mini one might have less stuck inwards towards the bearing thus making the disk sit closer to the hub. The other option would seem to be a spacer in between the disk and the flange to move it inwards, but never seen or heard of such a thing.
I hope this makes some sense as its difficult to explain.
#4
stevede
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Posted 01 January 2011 - 06:20 PM
I fitted the 7.9 vented kit to mine and when I got them they told me to put a washer (supplied) between the caliper and mounting.
This caused the caliper to be slightly off centre, so I did away with the washer and they lined up just fine.
This caused the caliper to be slightly off centre, so I did away with the washer and they lined up just fine.
#5
jamie@thefatgarage
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Posted 01 January 2011 - 06:37 PM
See these two flanges. Mine look like the rusty brown one, and look at the mini ones. The mini ones make the disk sit further back if you look at where the driveshaft washer goes on each. The metro one is recessed into the flange and the mini one sits proud of the flat area. Meaning the disk is further in towards the caliper on the mini one....
No idea where the ones I have came from... but they would appear to be wrong!
No idea where the ones I have came from... but they would appear to be wrong!
#6
charie t
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Posted 01 January 2011 - 07:41 PM
I had all this grief when i got mine, although they are mini spares claipers the same idea is there. They are designed for the mini drive flange. The metro flange moves the disc outwards as you have found. Either buy a set of new ones as in your second picture or source a set of seconds. Should be able to swap them easily for somebody wanting to do the fiesta conversionSee these two flanges. Mine look like the rusty brown one, and look at the mini ones. The mini ones make the disk sit further back if you look at where the driveshaft washer goes on each. The metro one is recessed into the flange and the mini one sits proud of the flat area. Meaning the disk is further in towards the caliper on the mini one....
No idea where the ones I have came from... but they would appear to be wrong!
They forgot to package the spacers in my case
but as you have vented discs this won't affect you
Edited by charie t, 01 January 2011 - 07:44 PM.
#7
jamie@thefatgarage
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Posted 01 January 2011 - 07:51 PM
Ordered some new ones. If anyone wants the others PM me and we can sort something out... I'll stick them in the for sale section when I get round to it for those who don't read this.
Turning into an expensive set of shiny brakes.. Mind you, that is in keeping with the rest of the rebuild!
Turning into an expensive set of shiny brakes.. Mind you, that is in keeping with the rest of the rebuild!
#8
charie t
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Posted 01 January 2011 - 07:55 PM
Yep i thought that too! Look the great when fitted thoughMind you, that is in keeping with the rest of the rebuild!
Edited by charie t, 01 January 2011 - 07:57 PM.
#9
Classic&Competition
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Posted 22 February 2011 - 07:07 PM
Jamie,
Just wondering how you got on with your brake setup in the end?
I have just bought a pair of Minisport 8.4" vented ally calipers to replace my Metro Turbo vented setup.
I have the original mini flanges from the solid 8.4" setup that came with the car, and the metro flanges I bought to complete the turbo conversion.
However, when using the Minisport caliper, neither of these appear to fit with off-the-shelf 8.4" vented discs.
The metro flange sits the disc too far away from the hub and the mini ones make the disc foul on the hub. (using a mini hub by the way)
By eye, it looks as if about 5mm needs to be machined off the face of the disc where it bolts to the flange and the mini flange to be used in order to sit the disc in the desired position.
You can see the difference in thickness of the calipers where they bolt to the hub and I think this is where the problem lies....
This appears to be a very sneaky way of Minisport selling calipers with which ONLY their own machined discs will work.
Their website lists some 8.4" vented discs as "for use with minisport alloy calipers" so i'm guessing this is the case. AND you can only buy grooved ones which work out at about £82 posted rather than about £30 for metro ones!!
Little bit annoyed though as they chose not to mention this when I called them and they now don't have any in stock and don't know when they will! Great, now ive got to bugger about trying to get discs machined before I can get the car MOT'd!!
They only list specific discs for the 8.4" vented setup, so im guessing all other variants can use stock discs.
As yours are grooved in the pics, im guessing you've not had this problem but has anyone else?
Sorry for the essay!!
John
Just wondering how you got on with your brake setup in the end?
I have just bought a pair of Minisport 8.4" vented ally calipers to replace my Metro Turbo vented setup.
I have the original mini flanges from the solid 8.4" setup that came with the car, and the metro flanges I bought to complete the turbo conversion.
However, when using the Minisport caliper, neither of these appear to fit with off-the-shelf 8.4" vented discs.
The metro flange sits the disc too far away from the hub and the mini ones make the disc foul on the hub. (using a mini hub by the way)
By eye, it looks as if about 5mm needs to be machined off the face of the disc where it bolts to the flange and the mini flange to be used in order to sit the disc in the desired position.
You can see the difference in thickness of the calipers where they bolt to the hub and I think this is where the problem lies....
This appears to be a very sneaky way of Minisport selling calipers with which ONLY their own machined discs will work.
Their website lists some 8.4" vented discs as "for use with minisport alloy calipers" so i'm guessing this is the case. AND you can only buy grooved ones which work out at about £82 posted rather than about £30 for metro ones!!
Little bit annoyed though as they chose not to mention this when I called them and they now don't have any in stock and don't know when they will! Great, now ive got to bugger about trying to get discs machined before I can get the car MOT'd!!
They only list specific discs for the 8.4" vented setup, so im guessing all other variants can use stock discs.
As yours are grooved in the pics, im guessing you've not had this problem but has anyone else?
Sorry for the essay!!
John
Edited by Classic&Competition, 22 February 2011 - 07:10 PM.
#10
WiredbyWilson
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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:40 PM
I have standard mini hubs I would have swapped with you.
#11
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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:47 PM
I have standard mini hubs I would have swapped with you.
Im using mini hubs already...
#12
WiredbyWilson
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Posted 22 February 2011 - 08:47 PM
Sorry meant flanges - been a long day!
#13
Classic&Competition
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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:17 PM
Sorry meant flanges - been a long day!
Oh right! No worries!
I've now got 2 pairs of metro vented flanges and a pair of mini ones...
Once i've got the ally set-up working ill be selling a complete metro turbo setup including flanges though if anyone is interested
#14
jamie@thefatgarage
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Posted 22 February 2011 - 09:30 PM
Jamie,
Just wondering how you got on with your brake setup in the end?
I have just bought a pair of Minisport 8.4" vented ally calipers to replace my Metro Turbo vented setup.
I have the original mini flanges from the solid 8.4" setup that came with the car, and the metro flanges I bought to complete the turbo conversion.
However, when using the Minisport caliper, neither of these appear to fit with off-the-shelf 8.4" vented discs.
The metro flange sits the disc too far away from the hub and the mini ones make the disc foul on the hub. (using a mini hub by the way)
By eye, it looks as if about 5mm needs to be machined off the face of the disc where it bolts to the flange and the mini flange to be used in order to sit the disc in the desired position.
You can see the difference in thickness of the calipers where they bolt to the hub and I think this is where the problem lies....
This appears to be a very sneaky way of Minisport selling calipers with which ONLY their own machined discs will work.
Their website lists some 8.4" vented discs as "for use with minisport alloy calipers" so i'm guessing this is the case. AND you can only buy grooved ones which work out at about £82 posted rather than about £30 for metro ones!!
Little bit annoyed though as they chose not to mention this when I called them and they now don't have any in stock and don't know when they will! Great, now ive got to bugger about trying to get discs machined before I can get the car MOT'd!!
They only list specific discs for the 8.4" vented setup, so im guessing all other variants can use stock discs.
As yours are grooved in the pics, im guessing you've not had this problem but has anyone else?
Sorry for the essay!!
John
In my experience the 8.4" vented disks are all the same in terms of disk offset relative to the face where the flange bolts on, grooved or not, minisport or standard. Metro and mini hubs make no difference to the positioning of the disk, and the only thing that moves the disk in relation to the caliper is the flange.
That means from my experience if you get any vented 8.4" disk on a standard mini or metro disk brake hub and use mini flanges (I got a set of flanges off the shelf from minispares), the minisport alloy calipers should line up perfectly as mine do.
i.e. a minisport alloy caliper is a direct bolt on replacement for the standard mini 8.4" vented disk caliper setup.
Hope this helps
Don't start filing the caliper or machining the disk!
#15
Classic&Competition
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Posted 23 February 2011 - 08:37 AM
Unfortunately I believe there is a difference.
The Minisport website lists two variants of vented grooved discs...one for use with metro turbo calipers, one for use with their alloy calipers.
http://www.minisport...rake_Discs.html
You can see from your picture further up that the difference comes from the mounting face of the caliper (where it bolts to the hub), which is much thicker on the ally caliper than the original metro 4-pot.
Certainly wont be modding the calipers in any way, don't want to compromise safety. (and they're much too pretty!)
Shall bolt everything up tight this weekend and take some careful measurements before machining the disc. I can't see any other option, not going to wait for them to get discs in stock...could be waiting forever!!
The Minisport website lists two variants of vented grooved discs...one for use with metro turbo calipers, one for use with their alloy calipers.
http://www.minisport...rake_Discs.html
You can see from your picture further up that the difference comes from the mounting face of the caliper (where it bolts to the hub), which is much thicker on the ally caliper than the original metro 4-pot.
Certainly wont be modding the calipers in any way, don't want to compromise safety. (and they're much too pretty!)
Shall bolt everything up tight this weekend and take some careful measurements before machining the disc. I can't see any other option, not going to wait for them to get discs in stock...could be waiting forever!!
Edited by Classic&Competition, 23 February 2011 - 08:39 AM.
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