422 replies to this topic

[Scallywag630]

Stone the crows, I best not mention my car is a Riley elf then

Sorry, corrected.

[E.L.M.O]

I cant stand the thought that if BINI had its own section, as years go on and less and less Classics are on the road gradually BINI would take over the forum. There would be classics with no where to go then, as the forum would just be swamped with BINI. I am thinking to the future. And I think there should be a specialist classic place for the classic mini forever. this place was started for the classic mini and should stay for the classic mini. imagine a time when this forum is 99% Bini and a classic owner cant find advice, and they then have to go somewhere else, if a place would exist. BINI have a specialist place to go NOW. No need to over run this place. Because thats what WOULD HAPPEN

At the end of the day, how dare you put down my thoughts and worries by saying we have "blinkers on" and cant look to the future. I can look to the future fine by my self thank you very much.

Edited by E.L.M.O, 29 December 2010 - 12:01 AM.

[mattdc2r]

Bini didn't replace te mini, it just carried the name on and tried to be a modern version of an icon. As much as we all love the classic mini, it was dated, and expensive for what it was. Hence had to go out of production. You may not agree with this statement, but Rover no longer exist so doesn't really matter.

By getting left behind, i mean classic mini Shows only are getting few and far between, it's all about making money for the organisers of these shows most of the time, so who's going to invite tmf to their show when they could invite another group with potentially a bigger following. I'm thinking 10 years time, not right now.

At the end of the day, a forum is going to attract enthusiasts, not every tom, dick or harry that drives a bini.

I've got nothing more to add, it's in the hands of the moderators.

[E.L.M.O]

Bini didn't replace te mini, it just carried the name on and tried to be a modern version of an icon. As much as we all love the classic mini, it was dated, and expensive for what it was. Hence had to go out of production. You may not agree with this statement, but Rover no longer exist so doesn't really matter.

By getting left behind, i mean classic mini Shows only are getting few and far between, it's all about making money for the organisers of these shows most of the time, so who's going to invite tmf to their show when they could invite another group with potentially a bigger following. I'm thinking 10 years time, not right now.

At the end of the day, a forum is going to attract enthusiasts, not every tom, dick or harry that drives a bini.

I've got nothing more to add, it's in the hands of the moderators.

Its not for me to correct you, but I dont believe the shows actually work in that way. (well, I run my own club and was on the committee for SMOC- Southern Mini Owners who run SMD many years ago)

And how and where we are going to get left behind... Are we in a race? Am I winning? No one even told me!
If were not in a race then I think this may be a random saying that doesnt actually mean anything and telling people you will be left behind is just a way of imposing your views. It doesn't actually mean anything or carry any weight. Its just..... talk.

Edited by E.L.M.O, 29 December 2010 - 12:18 AM.

[mab01uk]

Do you think that Metros should have their own section? Afterall they are closer to mini than bini!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and many have put forward eloquent arguments for and against. However, I see no purpose in continuing a lost cause. The MINI section proposed is not going to happen for the forseeable future.

I ask again the hypothetical question that none have yet answered:

...Should BMW sell the MINI name to FIAT, and Fiat put the MINI badge on a totally different car, would bini owners accept that car as a true MINI?

I doubt they would just as the majority of classic owners don't except bini as a true mini. Forget all the rubbish about same factory staff etc...it was designed and built by a seperate company.

I don't think the Metro was ever closer to the Mini than the MINI is in looks, driving characteristics, fun image or worldwide enthusiast following. After the LC8 revamp the Metro ended up closer to Alec Issigonis 1100/1300 range in the kind of people it was aimed at and never had much of an enthusiast following, even the MG versions were never comparable in performance or reliability with other hot hatches of their era due to the even then outdated A series pushrod engine and 4-speed gearbox.

Extract from 'Metro' The Book of the car by Graham Robson (1982)
"BL's ADO88 (Mini replacement) prototype was at the last minute revamped into the LC8 (Metro), not as a direct Mini replacement but as a bigger and complementary BL cars model, a small car to sell alongside the Mini, which would remain in production............after 3 years of developing the ADO88 BL had realised the demand for Mini cars was going down, while that for small cars (supermini hatchbacks) was going up. In 1979 to emphasise that the Metro would not replace the Mini BL encouraged the motoring press to celebrate the Minis 20th Birthday in Aug 1979 along with launching the Mini 1100 special. The clincher, which finally made it crystal clear that the Mini was not about to disappear, was the advert which trumpeted this message: 'Like Bostik, it's going to stick around'. Underneath, in a short crisp commentary, came the sentance: 'Nothing will replace the Mini, not even our new hatchback Metro'.

(Of course the only reason the Metro had the Mini's A Series engine and gearbox was due to lack of money to invest in it, until much later in the Metros/100 life when the K series was fitted).

If the MINI was sold to Fiat and they engineered a next generation MINI as worthy of the name and driving characteristics of the Mini's heritage as Rover/BMW engineeers have successfuly done I would certainly accept the car as a true MINI and keep the brand alive for future generations to enjoy. It would of course be nice if they kept the main production plant and jobs in the UK as BMW have done, but based on the lack of any Fiat 500/Panda production in Italy sadly I doubt that would would be the case if that scenario happened...........

Why is the same factory, staff, etc rubbish? What about BAe ownership of Rover?..............visit the Oxford MINI factory and you may also value the investment that continues to be made in peoples jobs and expanding the Plant, unlike BAe owned Rover who asset stripped large parts of it for a retail park ..............the Mk1 MINI and much of the current Mk2 carried over was designed and built by hundreds of Rover engineers at Gaydon. I would think most of Issigonis team would have retired by then anyway..........although Alex Moultons suspension system advice was considered and John & Mike Cooper were consultants during the design phase and beyond.
Former Rover Engineer tell at first hand the role Rover had to play in the new MINI Development:
http://www.theminifo...x...t&p=1297947

Edited by mab01uk, 29 December 2010 - 12:53 AM.

[Ethel]

Discussion is good, though there must be a better way to spend the Xmas break

Speaking for myself,

TMF is only one small part of the Mini/MINI scene, we don't attempt, or wish to, cater for everyone. Our "constituency" are ordinary Classic Mini enthusiasts, we can serve that interest best by not diluting our content with stuff that doesn't relate to it. If we attempted to carry content on two technically unrelated vehicles we'd provide a poorer service for both - without mentioning the added confusion of them sharing a common name.

The (original) Metro is technically identical to Minis in many respects, so Mini enthusiasts can benefit from discussions about Metros, as well as us providing a web presence that the old Metty couldn't maintain on its own.

We certainly aren't anti MINI and there's no reason why they and their owners shouldn't be included in TMF's sections that cover the social aspects of the larger Mini scene.

[littlemissmagic]

I cant stand the thought that if BINI had its own section, as years go on and less and less Classics are on the road gradually BINI would take over the forum. There would be classics with no where to go then, as the forum would just be swamped with BINI. I am thinking to the future. And I think there should be a specialist classic place for the classic mini forever. this place was started for the classic mini and should stay for the classic mini. imagine a time when this forum is 99% Bini and a classic owner cant find advice, and they then have to go somewhere else, if a place would exist. BINI have a specialist place to go NOW. No need to over run this place. Because thats what WOULD HAPPEN

At the end of the day, how dare you put down my thoughts and worries by saying we have "blinkers on" and cant look to the future. I can look to the future fine by my self thank you very much.

very well said


In 10 years time there will still be pleanty of classic minis on the road and will still be going strong. Both my younger sisters love minis and are going to have them as their first car. And i know lots of other young drivers who have a passion for minis. If TMF became shared with MINIs then eventually, it will become mainly MINIs and that means there will be no places for them to go.
There are pleanty of MINI forums already, and i take it the reason people are so intent on having a New MINI section on here is because this is such a great forum and theres a reason for that! The people here can always answer questions and give good useful advice, because they have experience!
MINIs will go out of fashion and as soon as they do, people will have little interest. Classics minis are going to still be around for a long time to come.

[Scallywag630]

I don't think the Metro was ever closer to the Mini than the MINI is in looks, driving characteristics, fun image or worldwide enthusiast following. After the LC8 revamp the Metro ended up closer to Alec Issigonis 1100/1300 range in the kind of people it was aimed at and never had much of an enthusiast following, even the MG versions were never comparable in performance or reliability with other hot hatches of their era due to the even then outdated A series pushrod engine and 4-speed gearbox.

I would say the Bini is closer to the Metro...larger and a hatchback!

Extract from 'Metro' The Book of the car by Graham Robson (1982)
"BL's ADO88 (Mini replacement) prototype was at the last minute revamped into the LC8 (Metro), not as a direct Mini replacement but as a bigger and complementary BL cars model, a small car to sell alongside the Mini, which would remain in production............after 3 years of developing the ADO88 BL had realised the demand for Mini cars was going down, while that for small cars (supermini hatchbacks) was going up. In 1979 to emphasise that the Metro would not replace the Mini BL encouraged the motoring press to celebrate the Minis 20th Birthday in Aug 1979 along with launching the Mini 1100 special. The clincher, which finally made it crystal clear that the Mini was not about to disappear, was the advert which trumpeted this message: 'Like Bostik, it's going to stick around'. Underneath, in a short crisp commentary, came the sentance: 'Nothing will replace the Mini, not even our new hatchback Metro'.

Well said Graham Robson! NOTHING will replace the mini.

(Of course the only reason the Metro had the Mini's A Series engine and gearbox was due to lack of money to invest in it, until much later in the Metros/100 life when the K series was fitted).

If the MINI was sold to Fiat and they engineered a next generation MINI as worthy of the name and driving characteristics of the Mini's heritage as Rover/BMW engineeers have successfuly done I would certainly accept the car as a true MINI and keep the brand alive for future generations to enjoy.

But in the opinion of many, BMW have NOT engineered a car worthy of the Mini heritage. Yes, its a good car, but NOT a Mini except for a purchased name.

It would of course be nice if they kept the main production plant and jobs in the UK as BMW have done, but based on the lack of any Fiat 500/Panda production in Italy sadly I doubt that would would be the case if that scenario happened...........

Why is the same factory, staff, etc rubbish? What about BAe ownership of Rover?..............visit the Oxford MINI factory and you may also value the investment that continues to be made in peoples jobs and expanding the Plant, unlike BAe owned Rover who asset stripped large parts of it for a retail park ..............the Mk1 MINI and much of the current Mk2 carried over was designed and built by hundreds of Rover engineers at Gaydon. I would think most of Issigonis team would have retired by then anyway..........although Alex Moultons suspension system advice was considered and John & Mike Cooper were consultants during the design phase and beyond.

If my name was Cooper, I'd certainly want to be involved for all the royalties!!

Former(then BMW) Rover Engineer tell at first hand the role Rover had to play in the new MINI Development:
http://www.theminifo...x...t&p=1297947

[Bungle]

i think everyone has forgot or maybe don't know why this forum was set up

it was set up by 2 friends so they could learn how to keep their classic minis on the road and i think we still do this quite well

[Shifty]

i think everyone has forgot or maybe don't know why this forum was set up

it was set up by 2 friends so they could learn how to keep their classic minis on the road and i think we still do this quite well

I wouldn't mention this, to the best of my knowledge they still haven't fixed their minis!!!

[Bungle]

i think your right

[dave585]

I think it's time to call it a day in this, everything that has been said has.
There's no point going on over the same things some people will not except what's gone on and vice versa.
To solve this the mini/MINI united not divided forum is up and running and we would be grateful if now any one with a question about the MINI you would direct them to us at www.miniunitednotdivided.freeforums.org and if any one with a classic we then can send to TMF if we are unable to help.
Hopefully we can add a link to TMF and vice versa so that we can work with each other in the mini family and finally lay the ghosts of the past to rest.

[Tanya]

i think everyone has forgot or maybe don't know why this forum was set up

it was set up by 2 friends so they could learn how to keep their classic minis on the road and i think we still do this quite well

I wouldn't mention this, to the best of my knowledge they still haven't fixed their minis!!!

and isn't it amazing and great what it has evolved into! There are classified, digital mini, other projects, general chat, off topic banter and so on.

Oh, and I'm pleased that the founder members haven't fixed their minis yet. I didn't think minis were fixable (that maybe part of the reason this forum is as successful as it is ), mine don't seem to be, they just have long lists and my mission is to knock more items off the list than my minis put on.

[Carlzilla]

If you ask me, im sick of keyboard warriors.

A simple solution, in my eyes, would be to include in the opening posters window, a tick box in which you show the post to be relative to either new, or classic minis. Then include a filter setting in account settings, as to whether you wish to view the posts flagged as classic, or new, or both.

If you dont wish to see, or help, then don't, thats fine.
But no need for arguement about it.

I choose not to help new mini owners, as i have nothing in common with them, nor know much about the cars, in the same way i know nothing about any other car. I dont get involved, dont get in an arguement and im much happier for it, but this constant mini/MINI debate i feel is getting tiring, and perhaps out of hand.

Edited by Carlzilla, 29 December 2010 - 03:02 PM.

[E.L.M.O]

If you ask me, im sick of keyboard warriors.

A simple solution, in my eyes, would be to include in the opening posters window, a tick box in which you show the post to be relative to either new, or classic minis. Then include a filter setting in account settings, as to whether you wish to view the posts flagged as classic, or new, or both.

If you dont wish to see, or help, then don't, thats fine.
But no need for arguement about it.

I choose not to help new mini owners, as i have nothing in common with them, nor know much about the cars, in the same way i know nothing about any other car. I dont get involved, dont get in an arguement and im much happier for it, but this constant mini/MINI debate i feel is getting tiring, and perhaps out of hand.

Thats a good idea. Could it be easily set up? Ie is it a simple job setting that up? Of course there is still the issue about tech advice and bandwidth?
Surely the most simple answer IS 2 separate forums that work well together. Both forums represent the Mini/MINI name and represent each other

Edited by E.L.M.O, 29 December 2010 - 03:05 PM.