422 replies to this topic

[E.L.M.O]

While the Metro does share some components with mini, people tend not to associated Metro with mini in the same way as mini with MINI.

Only BINI fans associate the BINI with Mini.
Metro owners have more respect. they dont come on to a Mini site demanding attention.

[Tanya]

While the Metro does share some components with mini, people tend not to associated Metro with mini in the same way as mini with MINI.

Only BINI fans associate the BINI with Mini.
Metro owners have more respect. they dont come on to a Mini site demanding attention.

The general public do associate mini with MINI. I believe that more people associate MINI with mini than do not . I have not witnessed MINI owners on here demanding attention. They come on now and then and I have not seen a problem with their attitude or behaviour.

[Scallywag630]

While the Metro does share some components with mini, people tend not to associated Metro with mini in the same way as mini with MINI.

Only BINI fans associate the BINI with Mini.
Metro owners have more respect. they dont come on to a Mini site demanding attention.

The general public do associate mini with MINI. I believe that more people associate MINI with mini than do not . I have not witnessed MINI owners on here demanding attention. They come on now and then and I have not seen a problem with their attitude or behaviour.

I do not beleive the general public associate mini with MINI. Certainly not the MINI owners I know. They bought it in its own right with no thought for the mini. Infact, if the general buying public did associate the two, then I would expect to see MINI sales fall......general public associate BMW with quality and reliability and Rover with rust and breakdowns!!!!

[minim@t]

Been debating posting on this topic,
like probably most of you i stumbled across this forum through Gooogle....not hard top search
I've not been on here to long due but have enjoyed my stay thus far,
I like the fact that everybody here is as nuts about minis as myself, and love trawling through build threads to see other peoples cars, learning tricks and ways to tackle certain problems with their minis, that will help me when i finally get around to my resto.
I'm on the fence as far as the new Minis concerned, Hated it when it came out, "German scum!!!" even made T shirts to demonstrate my disappointment with BMW, but have learnt to accept it as a CAR, and though i appreciate it now has a massive following and is becoming abit of a cult car still dont consider it to be a Mini, yeah it has bits that replicate the original and its available as a cooper I just cant love it,
but thats not the point of my post,
The merge if the two camps will result in this:

wake up one morning and the mini wont start, first things first, TMF = post = "mini wont start?"

1st Reply "is it a mini or a BINI?"

(before anyone shoots me down with "it will be in a different area, like most people i hit the New posts tab as always)

On a Mini dedicated forum id like the people reading my plea for a quick fix to know what car i drive,

I came here with the asumption it not being about Rover/Austin Vs BMW its about a dedicate place for all things Mini ( as in actual Mini)

I dont mean to offend anyone with a BINI but If i owned both id use TMF for the Mini and a dedicated site for the other,


Please don't change TMF,

sorry for the rant Matt

[Tanya]

While the Metro does share some components with mini, people tend not to associated Metro with mini in the same way as mini with MINI.

Only BINI fans associate the BINI with Mini.
Metro owners have more respect. they dont come on to a Mini site demanding attention.

The general public do associate mini with MINI. I believe that more people associate MINI with mini than do not . I have not witnessed MINI owners on here demanding attention. They come on now and then and I have not seen a problem with their attitude or behaviour.

I do not beleive the general public associate mini with MINI. Certainly not the MINI owners I know. They bought it in its own right with no thought for the mini. Infact, if the general buying public did associate the two, then I would expect to see MINI sales fall......general public associate BMW with quality and reliability and Rover with rust and breakdowns!!!!

I have to disagree. I find the general public have a fondness for mini, despite its little problems and are very happy to associate their MINI with my minis. I have learnt to cope with people regularly coming up to me with great delight to tell me they own a mini too, for me to discover they own a MINI! I used to not respond particularly positively, but I have now got over myself and acknowledge their enthusiasm for both their MINI and my mini. I used to have regular cross purpose conversations about minis/MINIs, but have learnt to expect what I would like to be mini conversations, are going to be MINI ones, with me mostly nodding away politely! I have even been given MINI gifts by people who know I like minis but failing to understand it is minis I like! I am well known for my love of minis but it is often assumed that my love is for MINI too! However, I just smile sweetly, then work on telling them about mini and why mini and the mini scene is great

[littlemissmagic]

I agree, keep TMF as it is!

While the Metro does share some components with mini, people tend not to associated Metro with mini in the same way as mini with MINI.

Only BINI fans associate the BINI with Mini.
Metro owners have more respect. they dont come on to a Mini site demanding attention.

The general public do associate mini with MINI. I believe that more people associate MINI with mini than do not . I have not witnessed MINI owners on here demanding attention. They come on now and then and I have not seen a problem with their attitude or behaviour.

MINI owners are demanding attention in a way (hear me out!) by wanting a completely new section for them on here when they could just use MINI2 or a more specifically related forum for the new MINI.

There is no problem with their behaviour at the moment, i think everyone on here who has a MINI is polite and very nice, but unfortunately not all MINI owners are like that! Same as not all mini owners are nice sometimes. I may be wrong, but the MINI owners on here at the moment also own a classic mini or have an interest in them?
People who have an interest in both cause no problems but what happens when you start getting the people purely interested in new MINIs? I know you want to get them interested in the classic, but with some owners that is just not going to happen, same way some mini owners will never be interested in the MINI. People like what the like!

New MINIs are great in their own way, id like to own one in the future when they are cheaper to buy
but they are not like a classic mini at all!

oh and the mini metro is closer to the mini name than MINI can ever be and thats simply because they use the same parts! the engine is an A series, like the mini and you can easily put metro parts on a mini, unlike MINI parts which would not fit easily onto a mini

[1984mini25]

Just my two pence here, I think TMF should be purely classic mini. I have nothing against the BMW MINI, in fact I think it's bloody fantastic in its own right, but there is a world of difference between that and the classic mini which we all drive and in which we have a vast collected knowledge. The two could not be entirely combined successfully, a separate section for the BMW might work, but I think even that would be silly.

There is a forum for BMW MINIs, and a forum for classic minis, nice and simple, keep it that way.

i'm with Pete

it's not as if BINI people don't have some where else to go

+3

As has already been pointed out by others, the early MINI's are now 10 years old and becoming a cheap entry level small car for both enthusiasts and everyday owners looking for help, ideas and advice on their cars now long out of warranty. Either we welcome and help them out as part of the general Mini community, as some other classic forums have successfully done, or choose to stay insular and keep sending them away elsewhere.

I never have and never will see BINI owners as enthusiasts towards the classic mini they are two completely different cars, bought by different people, for different reasons.

The Bini owners in my street couldn’t give a fudge about classic minis; all they care about is keeping up with fashion, when the time comes they will be replaced with the next latest/new/affordable/reliable/safe fashion accessory.

at this stage i don't think the TMF team are in a position to know what they can offer BMW members

if we did would we need more band width etc

would we end up turning classic owners away if the forum was taken over by BMW owners

do we have enough technical knowledge on the forum to support a BMW technical section and who could we ask for help, these cars aren't very DIY friendly

do we want to fall out with mini2 and take their members

is having more members on this forum a good thing, everyone says TMF is not as good as it was with fewer members

all these points and more will have to be addressed in the staff room before we even thing about having a vote

Exactly, plus if a Bini owner needs technical advice there’s plenty of Bini forums for them to look at or failing that there’s a wide dealer network.

If tmf is so hung up on attracting new members, how come the majority (from my experience) join up, make a few posts and then leave after a year or 2, with the hardcore sticking around for a bit longer. Attracting new members is all well and good if only you can keep the ones you have.

[Tanya]

I agree, keep TMF as it is!

While the Metro does share some components with mini, people tend not to associated Metro with mini in the same way as mini with MINI.

Only BINI fans associate the BINI with Mini.
Metro owners have more respect. they dont come on to a Mini site demanding attention.

The general public do associate mini with MINI. I believe that more people associate MINI with mini than do not . I have not witnessed MINI owners on here demanding attention. They come on now and then and I have not seen a problem with their attitude or behaviour.

MINI owners are demanding attention in a way (hear me out!) by wanting a completely new section for them on here when they could just use MINI2 or a more specifically related forum for the new MINI.

There is no problem with their behaviour at the moment, i think everyone on here who has a MINI is polite and very nice, but unfortunately not all MINI owners are like that! Same as not all mini owners are nice sometimes. I may be wrong, but the MINI owners on here at the moment also own a classic mini or have an interest in them?
People who have an interest in both cause no problems but what happens when you start getting the people purely interested in new MINIs? I know you want to get them interested in the classic, but with some owners that is just not going to happen, same way some mini owners will never be interested in the MINI. People like what the like!

New MINIs are great in their own way, id like to own one in the future when they are cheaper to buy
but they are not like a classic mini at all!

oh and the mini metro is closer to the mini name than MINI can ever be and thats simply because they use the same parts! the engine is an A series, like the mini and you can easily put metro parts on a mini, unlike MINI parts which would not fit easily onto a mini

I am a mini enthusiast, but I do want MINI involvement in TMF, just not sure the best way to do this, hence the importance of this debate. I do read and think about the posts, which get munched through my brain - slowly usually! I have changed my opinions over the years from being about as anti MINI involvement in the mini scene as someone could be, although I would never be rude to a MINI owner as that's just not me, to coming to the realisation that mini can significantly benefit from MINIs involvement and close association.

I would not expect all MINI owners to have an interest in mini, but I hope that enough will to help bring in new blood and ideas to mini. The mini scene does need to keep attracting new people and with it being 10 years since the last mass produced mini was produced, we cannot be complacent.

I agree with you, that for me a MINI is never going to be a mini and I feel that the cars for me are completely different. However, I have to accept that we are in the minority and it is easy to get stuck in the little 'mini scene bubble', but the majority of people don't see it like that. They view a MINI as the natural progression of a mini.

I think as you acknowledged, problems with behaviour are not really about MINI or mini, that's about people, so where there are people, you risk getting problems with behaviour.

I do not dispute that the Metro (or Mini Metro, as it was first known) is closer to the mini component wise, but again, the majority of people don't see mini being associated with Metro, but they do with MINI. MINI and mini sound identical, mini and Metro do not. Nobody I work with or meet through work or other hobbies assumes I like Metros because I like minis (although I am quite fond of them ), they assume I like MINIs!

[megamini_jb]

TMF should stay a classic mini forum only

[Scallywag630]

I am a mini enthusiast, but I do want MINI involvement in TMF, just not sure the best way to do this, hence the importance of this debate. I do read and think about the posts, which get munched through my brain - slowly usually! I have changed my opinions over the years from being about as anti MINI involvement in the mini scene as someone could be, although I would never be rude to a MINI owner as that's just not me, to coming to the realisation that mini can significantly benefit from MINIs involvement and close association.

The situation is most members DON'T want MINI involvement in TMF.

I would not expect all MINI owners to have an interest in mini, but I hope that enough will to help bring in new blood and ideas to mini. The mini scene does need to keep attracting new people and with it being 10 years since the last mass produced mini was produced, we cannot be complacent.

I agree that new blood is desirable, but would suggest that the people we want are not those that will confuse mini with MINI. However, the mini scene will eventually die out as the cars disappear but not for a long time I hope.

I agree with you, that for me a MINI is never going to be a mini and I feel that the cars for me are completely different. However, I have to accept that we are in the minority and it is easy to get stuck in the little 'mini scene bubble', but the majority of people don't see it like that. They view a MINI as the natural progression of a mini.

Where did you get this load of codswallop from? We are certainly not the minority and the general public do not see the MINI as a natural progression of the mini. The only connection for them is the name.

I think as you acknowledged, problems with behaviour are not really about MINI or mini, that's about people, so where there are people, you risk getting problems with behaviour.

Agreed....There is NO excuse for rudeness, but I do understand that sentiment runs high,

I do not dispute that the Metro (or Mini Metro, as it was first known) is closer to the mini component wise, but again, the majority of people don't see mini being associated with Metro, but they do with MINI.

No they don't. That is wishful thinking by the pro MINI lobby.

MINI and mini sound identical, mini and Metro do not. Nobody I work with or meet through work or other hobbies assumes I like Metros because I like minis (although I am quite fond of them ), they assume I like MINIs!

[E.L.M.O]

The general public do associate mini with MINI.

Ohh Im sorry, I didnt know you actually spoke on behalf of the general public.

MINI owners are demanding attention in a way (hear me out!) by wanting a completely new section for them on here when they could just use MINI2 or a more specifically related forum for the new MINI.

Yep, thats the point I was trying to make.
Just use MINI2. Its not a hardship. why do you need to demand people give you special treatment.

[dave585]

Good god people! Has any one looked at any comments or are you just picking the bits that you can have a go at!
What has been asked is a new mini section for owners of both cini and bini to have just one place to go! How hard is that to understand. It's simple. No one is asking for a massive change so that TMF must be all about new minis at all.
Why are people so intent in not moving forward and facing the future were cinis are dwindling off the road, and no people are not buying cinis any more only the fans are, I asked a young lad at work what he wanted as his first car I told him get a cini but his answers was **** off why would I want a bag of ****! I want something better! Plus working in a dearlership we had 7 cinis in part exchange when asked I was told that no one wanted to buy them private plus they were to much trouble.
The joy of owning a cini is to run them and fix them but it's turning people away with your unfriendly attitudes on here that will put more people off.
Talking to a load of cini people and yes until I get my cini next month I am the only bini on there 12 of them have stopped using TMF and a few more on about leaving! Not a good thing but as you want it just the way it is then fine carry on!
It's up to you to help get the cini word out there by promoting it to owners of the bini who want to be a part if the cini family who want to be involved and might want a buy and restore one, it's up to you do do something to get more people to buy and save a cini from scrap, but hey I'm talking rubbish I see that no one wants to move forward and stay as they are, unfriendly unwelcoming unhelpful to those who ask a question about the bini once in a while it's a wonder people don't want to join.
Another factor in showing in the dwindling cini family is that mags such as mini world the readership is falling and was costing to much to run that's why it was sold to Kelsey as they are in the small section of mags, but funny how modern mini is growing in it's readership, classic falling modern rising!
It's up to you to get more people interested in the cini by using bini to your advantage like it or not things will have to change for the better to help the classic live longer then this is it welcome people with binis get them interested in them talk to them be friendly with them you don't have to like the car I hate the cini clubman front end but I'm not nasty towards them or ******* there cars off.
With in the next 10 years there will be less on the road it will happen as the new smaller bini comes out and other modern cars get better and cheaper the cini will be left behind and will be thought of old mans car!
Start as you want to go on moving forward to get new blood in both talking and welcoming or dwindle and stay as you are unwelcoming etc and giving the cini and TMF a bad rap? It up to you!

[minim@t]

???? What's a cini?????

[Tanya]

I can feel your understandable frustration dave585! However, three or four year's ago I held view's and opinion exactly along these lines, but have now got your points primarily as I want mini to survive as long as possible and be in as many people's hearts and minds, not just a small group of enthusiasts. I am not deterred by any of the comments on here, although I do read them and put them in to my thinking. I know it takes years to alter cultures (allowing for views and membership to change), and that is fine with me. I know that currently on here I am in the minority, BUT I am allowed and will continue to express my views, opinions and beliefs.

I do share your frustration with some people taking comments out of context, while choosing not to address some of the points that I have made, for example, Bungle made a post with a list of concerns/questions, which I did address. Since I have addressed them, people have re-quoted Bungle's list and have made no reference to my answers and suggestions to them. I will just plod on making my points and expressing my views, justifying them and questioning others.

The general public do associate mini with MINI.

Ohh Im sorry, I didnt know you actually spoke on behalf of the general public.

Like it or not, the general public think of mini and MINI together; I base this on conversations and observations. Other than 'hatches, matches and dispatches clothes', I only have mini tops, so all my T-shirt, jumpers and fleeces are mini ones. Also, all my bags (sort of handbags, but I don't really do handbags) are mini ones. This prompts conversations with people I know, and those I don't.

Also, back in October, a researcher from Fifth Gear came on here asking for a mini as they were doing a feature on the MINI Countryman. She wanted it to should how mini/MINI had grown. She was not a MINI or mini person, just making a feature and doing it for public consumption. It never crossed her mind that people did not associate mini with MINI, if the feeling within the public was like that, she would not have asked for a mini for the MINI feature. And no, she did not ask for an Audi, VW, Fiesta or even a.......Metro! It was a mini!

[Tanya]

???? What's a cini?????

I think it is a name for mini, a bit like we get Bini on here. I try not to use Bini on here as I know that some MINI owners have had it used as a term of abuse, so when I can, I use MINI instead. I know that most members do not use it in an abusive way, but I am sensitive to the fact that it has been (and may still be) used as a term of abuse.

Go on dave585, enlighten me as to how mini got the cini name! Sorry if I am being a bit slow!