27 replies to this topic

[[email protected]]

http://www.theminifo...showtopic=65940

Old thread, the list of what is trademarked though is extensive

[grumpy2]

Isn't it just the mini logo that is trademarked? BMW can't stop anyone using the word mini or a picture of a privately owned car.

I know enough about this to know it's a very complicated area and what is and what is not allowed usually has to be tested in court at great expense.

the 'mini' logo and name will indeed be trademarked and cannot legally be used without the 'owners' permission. not the owner of the product but the owner of the right.

the shape of the actual car may (or may not 'because I don't actually know) be a registered design. this means that copies of the shape cannot be manufactured. it may be one of the reasons why the pimlico kit car isn't made anymore, it's certainly why westfield had to redesign the shape of the lotus 7 look-a-like as caterham owned the design right

there may (or may not) be a trademark associated with the 2D drawing of the mini profile in either front or side elevation. if there is then any organisation or individual using the trademark foir personal or private gain will have to be subject to a licensing agreement with the holder of the trademark.

so....
taking a photo of your car and sticking it on a tee shirt is probably OK
taking a photo on someone elses' car and selling it on a mug to that person is also probably OK
taking a photo of your car, printing it on a tee shirt and selling it to you pals probably isn't OK
taking a photo of any car, printing it on a mug to sell on ebay probably isn't OK

using the actual mini logo without permission probably isn't OK

if the profile drawing of the mini is registered as a trademark the using it in the above ways probably has the same outcomes

confusing???????????

G

[Jacko-lah]

it's certainly why westfield had to redesign the shape of the lotus 7 look-a-like as caterham owned the design right

Westfield did 2 things wrong which individually they MIGHT have got off with. Using the Name SEVEN, AND making it look identical. Incidentally they got into making kits in the first place after a midland based lotus specialist approached his fabricator mate to make him a new chassis for a crashed Lotus, after Caterham wanted some silly price.

Other kit manufacturers get around the problem by selling 'kits' of Spares, because the Eurocrats ruled that making spares was something which could not be restricted and that included body parts.

[mab01uk]

Ex-editor of Miniworld magazine Monty Watkins interviewed John Yea Managing Director of BMH (British Motor Heritage Ltd) about this topic in the Summer 2010 edition.

Extracts from MW article below:
"John Yea of BMH defends BMW's policy on protecting the Mini brand saying they have put a lot of effort into the BMH company when it was privatised in 2001 and facilitated the move of Mini tooling to BMH with their full encouragement, permitting the continued supply of bodyshells and genuine replacement body panels and subframes. He thinks a lot of classic Mini people are being misled. BMW have a lot of respect for the Classic Mini and they have tried very hard to get their managers to understand. They are very concerned how they are perceived by the classic Mini world but the Mini brand is extremely important and must be protected against imitations. A lot of genuine parts are no longer available and people should be ashamed at some of the stuff thats out there. For example, the genuine Rover Mini subframes had a minimum number of spotwelds deemed to be safe, researched in much detail. Cheap aftermarket copies have fewer spotwelds and people need protecting from this. Part of our role is to assist BMW, Licensing is to maintain quality. The problem we have now is that an awful lot of stuff is coming in from super cheap sources. BMW lawyers are looking for abuses of the logos and the brand and legal letters are intentionally intimidating, clearly stating the rights being contravened. If you get the letter please stop selling and tell us who manufactures the products in question. Manufacturers should come to BMH to assess the quality of the product, if quality is good enough but sales very small, we would probably charge a peppercorn sum, rather than a percentage of the wholesale price. Small scale makers should come and talk to us first if quality is good."

BMW must approve use of Mini trademarks and logos, Triumph and Riley are also retained by BMW.
Nanjing in China need to approve anything Austin, Morris, Wolseley and MG.
Tata in India own Land Rover and also own the Rover brand (originally bought off BMW by Ford).

BMH - Marques, Trade Marks, Copyright & Part Numbers:
http://www.bmh-ltd.c...marks-useof.htm

British Motor Heritage Limited is the licensee of a number of famous British classic car marques.
Each of these marques has a unique identity made up of outstanding qualities or values for which it is recognised and are expressed through a variety of names, emblems and other designs used for the various models which make up the history of a particular marque.
As an example, for MG there is the MG name, the famous MG Octagon badge, and model names such as MGB and Midget, whilst for Mini there is the name Mini and Mini Cooper and the shield emblem together with the wings logo and the original vehicle shape.

Edited by mab01uk, 07 December 2010 - 11:01 PM.

[Dan]

it may be one of the reasons why the pimlico kit car isn't made anymore

The outline of the Mini was actually the very first registered design if memory serves. Domino were the only company making GRP bodies that actually had a licence to do so from Rover, because they had this BMW couldn't stop them making them. Unfortunately Domino went bust and their licence wasn't transferable so at that point BMW were able to shut down their production. I think the moulds and patterns have been destroyed, there were a lot of threads about what happened to the tooling back when this all happened.

[mab01uk]

They may still be available if anyone is interested, according to this:
Domino Cars Pimlico
1986 to Present
http://www.classic-k...-details.php?47
Quote:
The Domino Pimlico was a rust beating mini replica, albeit different enough to keep any lawsuits at bay (real minis were still being made)
The Pimlico was a doorless cabriolet with high seals which gave it a buggy like look. Body construction was GRP monocoque so no rusting problems which was a big draw for fed up Mini owners constantly battling the tin worm. Mini subframes were bolted to the monocoque and all other Mini mechanical components were used. Save for upgrading a few items, this was a one donor car kit. Although you never hear of them, Fibertech GRP Ltd still produce the Pimlico. Later developments saw the Domino Premier with doors, the HT with a Hard Top and a pick up variant.

Composite Design in Southampton
The company also has created two other brands, Fibretech (GRP) since 1987 and Domino Cars:
As we have evolved through it’s life it has continued to produce bespoke products to customer requirements across a wide range of applications. We have continued to produce Mini body shells in the form of the Premier, HT Saloon and Pick-up truck on behalf of our associated company Domino Cars. Also we continued to produce the Wizard roadster and other numerous sports cars and at the other end of the spectrum spares for Metro Cab Taxi, Invalid Vehicles, Fire Engine Components, and parts for MOD Land Rovers.
http://www.composite...neralsector.asp

Also of interest:
Racing Mini Body Shell
http://www.composite...ousprojects.asp
Carbon Fibre Tub for Racing Mini ?
http://www.composite...ousprojects.asp

Edited by mab01uk, 07 December 2010 - 11:50 PM.

[Dan]

I really don't think they are unfortunately.

Quote:

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT ABOUT THE ‘NEW’

DOMINO CARS ORGANISATION.



Mini enthusiasts with an interest in the Domino range are probably aware of the sad history of this Kit Car brand which at the turn of the years 2007/8 was finally put into Receivership. Commencing March 2008 we began an investigation into the feasibility of keeping the brand alive, even on a part-time and ‘paying-hobby’ basis (it was clear it could not be managed under normal commercial terms).



Today (Sept 2008) we have to announce that although having received many enquiries about bodies, and even more emails of support, we have decided NOT to invest any monies into the relaunch of the cars. In short, we just couldn’t make the sums add up even on a paying-hobby basis. The costs of building rents and rates here in the UK (along with ludicrously punitive H&S costs) effectively killed the plans stone-dead



It is with genuine regret that we have to announce such. The Domino remains, in our opinion, the best Mini-based kit car ever produced; and it is sad indeed that we just couldn’t find a way of bringing the marque back from the brink without exposing ourselves to unacceptable levels of financial risk.

My personal thanks to all who offered help, advice, assistance. Ian E. Broadbent

Stig tried to buy the tools at that point I believe. They were sold to one of the other major Mini GRP parts manufacturers and found to be in very poor condition. Under maintained and over used, in need of many thousands of pounds worth of refurbishment. And the licence was not going to be renewed, they were all cut up as a result to my knowledge.

[mab01uk]

I really don't think they are unfortunately.

Stig tried to buy the tools at that point I believe. They were sold to one of the other major Mini GRP parts manufacturers and found to be in very poor condition. Under maintained and over used, in need of many thousands of pounds worth of refurbishment. And the licence was not going to be renewed, they were all cut up as a result to my knowledge.

Yes, shame, but looks that way:
http://www.dominocars.org.uk/

[Ethel]

A registered design has a limited life and the mini's would have long since lapsed. Rover famously tried, and claimed they succeeded in registering the Mini's shape as a trademark - trademarks are perpetual. As above, it means nothing unless they are prepared to enforce it in court. I doubt they'd rush to do that, they could have more to lose than their opponent.

[imthetourguy]

Just to wake up an old thread. I’ve read a number of times recently that these moulds were not destroyed and that they had been sold overseas. The Netherlands have been mentioned twice. So, any more leads on that?

[Spider]

Just to wake up an old thread. I’ve read a number of times recently that these moulds were not destroyed and that they had been sold overseas. The Netherlands have been mentioned twice. So, any more leads on that?

 

I'm not sure what moulds you are referring to here, however, the dies used for pressing the steel panels are in the possession of BMH in the UK

https://www.bmh-ltd....rts/mini-parts/

 

[nicklouse]

 

Just to wake up an old thread. I’ve read a number of times recently that these moulds were not destroyed and that they had been sold overseas. The Netherlands have been mentioned twice. So, any more leads on that?

 

I'm not sure what moulds you are referring to here, however, the dies used for pressing the steel panels are in the possession of BMH in the UK

https://www.bmh-ltd....rts/mini-parts/

 

I think he’s on about the Domino moulds. I think ABS got them originally but after that? I know they did/do a hard top for the Domino convertible.

[DeadSquare]

The TUC might help, if you did a 523 limited edition, dedicated to Red Robbo.